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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
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1650 Starter Solenoid

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Adam Schuh, WI

12-01-2006 19:26:21




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Went out to plow snow today and the 1650 gas would not even crank over. Turn key and nothing. I finally got it started by jumping the solenoid with a battery cable. I turned the key to run and hooked a cable between the battery positive and the terminal on the starter that hooks to the solenoid. The tractor started this way. I am wondering if it is my solenoid for sure or a bad key switch.




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ADB

12-02-2006 07:00:42




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Adam Schuh, WI, 12-01-2006 19:26:21  
A word of caution! I went to my cousin's funeral this summer after he started his tractor by crossing the terminals at the starter. It was in gear! A sad day!



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evielboweviel

12-02-2006 16:47:07




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to ADB, 12-02-2006 07:00:42  
ya I keep forgetting that people did not grow up cranking tractors to start them like I did and therefore do not automaticly put the trans in nuetral before trying anything
Ron



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RAB

12-02-2006 19:20:24




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to evielboweviel, 12-02-2006 16:47:07  
Waddoyamean? Nine out of ten of mine start on the handle!!! I thought all tractors discussed on this board were the same, or had a donkey!!! OK, some of us only collect really old tractors.
Regards, RAB



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evielboweviel

12-02-2006 02:37:18




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Adam Schuh, WI, 12-01-2006 19:26:21  
on the solenoid jump between the battery wire and the small wire coming from the switch. On the diesel 1650 just use a screwdriver as they are close
Ron



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Adam Schuh

12-02-2006 05:21:27




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to evielboweviel, 12-02-2006 02:37:18  
You are talking about the wire from the key switch right? According to my service manual this wire is pink and there is a white wire connected to another terminal on the solenoid that runs to the coil.



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RAB

12-02-2006 00:59:25




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Adam Schuh, WI, 12-01-2006 19:26:21  
C"mon, it might only be a bad connection or wire, but can"t tell from this far. Find out before you spend or you may waste your money or have to spend again.
RAB



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Adam Schuh

12-02-2006 05:23:29




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to RAB, 12-02-2006 00:59:25  
When I turn the key to start, the ammeter on the dash goes to full discharge. I also noticed a small amount of smoke or steam coming from the solenoid. The solenoid was also warm after leaving the key turned to the start position for a little while.



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RAB

12-02-2006 10:33:47




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Adam Schuh, 12-02-2006 05:23:29  
How many amps is that switch pulling? How many amps should it pull? That solenoid is only a relatively low power switch for high current contacts (to connect the battery direct to the starter motor). I said before, you may have a poor connection or broken wire. Now, knowing a bit more of the symptoms I think you may have a short. Presumably the wire from the solenoid to the coil is the ballast resistor bypass wire (allowing full voltage to the coil for better starting). Depending where the fault is might mean the ballast resistor bypass is fried somewhere, or the solenoid coil is toast. Can"t tell from here. Try removing that wire to the coil and seeing if the starter works.
Your comment that the solenoid is warm after a little while is a little baffling to me. How long is a little while? If that solenoid coil is taking full scale amps, I would expect something to be getting VERY warm somewhere as 12 volts multiplied by a lot of amps is a lot of heat energy being produced somewhere.
Regards, RAB

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Adam Schuh

12-02-2006 13:26:55




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to RAB, 12-02-2006 10:33:47  
One more thing. On the terminal where the coil wire hooks to the solenoid, there is one white wire that goes to the coil and the other goes to the IGN terminal on the keyswitch. The wire that goes to the keyswitch is very small. How does this set-up cut the power to the coil to shut off the tractor? It seems to me that the coil must be getting 12 volts from the solenoid. Is this terminal on the solenoid always at battery voltage?

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Adam Schuh

12-02-2006 13:21:29




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to RAB, 12-02-2006 10:33:47  
I removed the wire from the starter terminal on the key switch to the solenoid and replaced it with a new wire. Now the starter spins when I turn the key but the solenoid is still junk. The terminal where this wire connects on the solenoid is very loose and not making a good connection anymore. It sparks and the starter runs then it doesn't run. If I wiggle the terminal it will continue to crank over. One more question. Last winter I had to replace the starter and the new one came with a new solenoid. The problem is that the new solenoid only has one terminal and the old one has two terminals on the top. Both of them have the 2 studs for the battery wire and the starter connection. My question is, if I use this solenoid where can I hook the wire that runs to the coil from the solenoid. I am thinking I can hook it direct to the battery terminal on the new solenoid, right or wrong?

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Larry from md

12-02-2006 13:52:41




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Adam Schuh, 12-02-2006 13:21:29  
The extra post and wire gives you full voltage on the coil when cranking. When running the volts go through a reister and the engine runs on less so nothing heats up. DO NOT HOOK this wire directly to the battery post,it will drain the battery and if the points are closed overheat the coil.



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Adam Schuh

12-03-2006 04:06:38




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Larry from md, 12-02-2006 13:52:41  
Ok, thats kinda what I was thinking but wasn't really sure. I am still wondering how the keyswitch cuts the power to the coil. Where does the power come from to get to the coil when the engine is running? Is the coil getting power through the small wire that runs from the keyswitch IGN terminal to the solenoid and then from there on a larger white wire that connects to the coil? (this is the same wire that would carry full volts to the coil at start up) And if this is where the power is coming from, where is this resistor you were talking about? Is it just the small size of the wire or somthing else? Hope this isn't confusing. Thanks in advance.

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J Schwiebert

12-03-2006 05:30:33




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Adam Schuh, 12-03-2006 04:06:38  
Oh boy now to remember, but that is a resistor type wire, Larry has it pretty well explained and I did not even read the first? (other posts) I don't know if I have a wiring diagram anymore. J.



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Adam Schuh

12-03-2006 07:05:28




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to J Schwiebert, 12-03-2006 05:30:33  
This resistor type wire. Where do I get a replacement. Mine is pretty well shot. Do I get one from AGCO or can I use some other small gauge wire.



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Mike (WA)

12-02-2006 08:12:12




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 Re: 1650 Starter Solenoid in reply to Adam Schuh, 12-02-2006 05:23:29  
Smoke or steam coming from the solenoid is usually an indication that it is toasted. Might take it apart and see if you can resurrect it by turning the copper disk so the contacts have a new contact point. Careful when you pull the end off, as there are some clip-type electrical connectors inside that can either be pried off and reused, or ripped off and ruined. Polish everything up so the electrical contacts are good, re-assemble and give it a try.

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