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Lesser Known Classics Discussion Forum

Cold Diesel Engine

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Johannes

11-13-2005 19:22:10




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I have a Deutz 6206 with a FL912 4 cylinder air cooled diesel engine. It doesn’t have glow-plugs but what looks to me a little heating device which heats up a little bit of diesel fuel. The device is located at the top front of the engine. It is a little cylinder of about 1 and a quarter inch in diameter and 2 inches high. The device takes about 3-4 minutes to get to hot to touch It has a (fuel) line from the fuel pump and a (fuel) line to another little device. This looks to me like a little injector. It is located in the duct which inserts air into the cylinders. After the previously mentioned 3-4 minutes of pre-heating, when I then crank the engine, it turns over and blue smoke is coming out of the exhaust system but the engine doesn’t start.
I have two big batteries cranking the starter, so that shouldn’t be the problem. I changed the oil to 15/40 and the machine doesn’t have a “handy” oil pan for a oil pan heater. It is all heavy duty steel. I would like to avoid heating contraptions. I once tried to start it while forcing hot air into the air intake but to no avail. I assume that this tractor wasn’t built by the Germans for only sunny days to use. It should be able to withstand some chilly days. I hear that Deutz is popular in Scandinavia and Poland. By the way, it was around freezing. Not even that cold.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Johannes

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Matt (Cetane)

02-20-2008 09:27:27




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:22:10  
Johannes said: "I once tried to start it while forcing hot air into the air intake but to no avail."

What method did you use to force hot air into the intake?

Thanks,

Matt



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Deutz101

04-07-2006 14:58:13




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:22:10  
If you check the fuel system and everything is good and clean including the screen in the primer pump and assuming the engine has plenty of compression. Then you have a problem with the injector pump timing. Contact me and I will tell you how to time it.

Thanks



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George S, in the real NY

11-13-2005 22:08:51




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine in reply to Johannes, 11-13-2005 19:22:10  
Here is 2 cents on this. Have had similiar problem with Volkswagen built diesels. Got two of the 6 cyl for Volvo car and neither will start. Glo plugs work, try ether, and almost start but won't run. Had a Rabbit car that had to be towed for a mile before it would finally stay running. The defect there was lack of compression due mostly to worn piston rings. I suspect that is the problem with the Volvo/VW engines, both of which had been sitting unused for over a year. In most Rabbit engines, I have found ring failure to be very common, due to use, and not all that many miles, or sitting unused for extended periods. I have shopped around for non German made rings but that seems to be all that is available, even thru US manufacturers, who just rebox the German made parts. Short story--not impressed with German ring technology. I've seen US factory rings last 200,000 miles and show some wear vs. the kraut ones that maybe will go 100,000. Chrome top ring would probably solve the problem... Anyway, I'd say it is time to have a compression check done on your engine, 'cause without compression, no starty. HTH, George

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jdemaris

11-15-2005 18:52:05




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine in reply to George S, in the real NY, 11-13-2005 22:08:51  
I'm not a fan of German stuff - be it tractors or cars. That being said, I've got two 1991 diesel Jettas with the same engine as the Rabbit used. Both have over 300K miles on them, neither have ever been rebuilt, and they are both excellent starting in cold weather down at about 20 degrees F. And, I consider it "real" New York where I live also in Otsego and Hamilton Counties. We sometimes get down to 30 degrees below zero F. My neighbor traded in his Deere 4020 years back for a big ugly Allis-Deutz 4WD over 100 horse tractor. It originally had a air intake fuel-assisted heater as a cold starting aid. He got in the habit, though of using a space-heater for cold starting. He'll go out in a 20 degrees below zero F. morning, aim the space heater onto the engine fins, wait about 15 minutes, and the tractor always fires right up. Personally, I think the tractor is a piece of crap as compared to his Deere 4020. He kinds of agrees - but when it came time to trade, he couldn't afford another Deere.

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Sonny Heath One

01-03-2006 18:33:29




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine in reply to jdemaris, 11-15-2005 18:52:05  
I don't believe you are giving the Germans a fair shake. Anything I've ever owned they built was far superior to anything similar American made, thats just the facts and I'm talking about roughly fifty automobiles and farm tractors I've personally owned and driven. Now I will admit that their stuff will, in fact, wear out but you can't go out and buy a German or any other for that matter, made item that you have no proof of its use and expect it to go on forever. Lets be fair about this. I collect German Lanz Bulldog tractors and from what I hear they are the most sought after tractor in the world. How many American or any other country made a one cylinder tractor with 55 horsepower that will run on anything that you can put on a rag and light a match to? No offense intended, Sonny Heath

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patbretagne

12-10-2005 23:32:57




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine in reply to jdemaris, 11-15-2005 18:52:05  
Hi, the coldstart that you mention is known as a Kigas as you say the little cup glows when you press a knob somewhere (trace the wiring) unless you have an automatic on off for the starter device.
Somewherelese you should have a knob that unscrews, pull out the plunger and prime the cup with three strokes of the pump, heat up the bowl with the aforesaid button for a minute or so, then if all is working well, the engine is in good order, it will start.
I have this device which has never failed on a Renault D30 of 1958 vintage and it starts every time, it has a Perkins P3 engine. We had a large compressor at one time with the same starting device, Iveco italien engine, started a dream if one has the patience for the device to warm up, I seem to remember that this one didn't have the pump though some sort of automatic fuel supply to the device when cold.
Hope my ramblings help
Pat

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Dr. Crane

11-14-2005 17:40:35




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 Re: Cold Diesel Engine in reply to George S, in the real NY, 11-13-2005 22:08:51  
Not sure if yours is the same, but on some deutz engines there is a cold start button located just to the right of the colling fan shroud and kind of down and around in back of it. It's a pin that sticks out and you push it in and it will click and stay in, then the engine will start right up. It's hard to explain and not all deutz engines have it. The last time I saw this feature was about 13 years ago on a 1987 2 cyl.

Hope this helps

Mike

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