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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Finally gonna paint!

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Dad's B

03-05-2006 16:32:33




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Hi Guys,

I am finally ready to start painting my dad"s old Farmall B. I have read many posts on this forum and have decided to use PPG Omni paint without hardner as I do not have the proper air equipment. What I am unclear on is some of the details of time windows between primers and top coats and what prep should be done between these coats. If you could CNKS, would you go through one more time the steps after the metal is cleaned with DX330. Of course, I will read the cans but it would make more sense with an outline from someone who has used it.

Thanks, Jeff

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B-maniac

03-06-2006 18:58:40




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 Re: Finally gonna paint! in reply to Dad's B, 03-05-2006 16:32:33  
I reallize that you are asking CNKS ,specifically,and you probably have your reasons,but since CNKS invited myself and Rod to feel free to comment,I do have only one thing to add that might help you out with the final finish to get the look you will be happy with.Since you are bound to have a few flaws in the final coats,(sometimes sh&t happens)plan ahead for the worst and apply at least 2-3 extra coats after you think your done. This applies to sheet metal only,not cast surfaces.This will allow you,after 2 months of good 70-80 degree summer heat, to "color sand" out any dirt,runs or other flaws and buff the finish to a nice smooth glossy shine.I won't go into the procedure here but if you get to that point,either get back on here or ask at your local auto body shops. You will be suprised at how it will make an amateur paint job look very professional. After all there is no such thing as a perfect "as sprayed" paint job.I think even CNKS and Rod will agree on that. Good luck on your paint job.

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CNKS

03-06-2006 10:50:30




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 Re: Finally gonna paint! in reply to Dad's B, 03-05-2006 16:32:33  
You might ask on the Farmall forum if anyone has recoated IH 2150, in fixing drips, runs, etc. It is an acrylic modified alkyd enamel that people have apparantly had good results with. I am almost postive that you can use the PPG products under it. Rod and I usually use acrylic urethane, and like Rod, I have not used Omni MAE (except for a few small parts) or 2150, and, as to the 181, I have not used it either as I prefer urethane surfacer for the reasons Rod mentioned. The 30 minute dry time is on the spec sheet, nothing at all wrong to wait a day or so to make sure it is absolutely dry. As to the 2150, it is not the correct color for your B, that is IH 50. I have not compared 50 and 2150, so I can't tell you what the differences are. I do know that 2150 looks somewhat orange. The PPG code for IH 50 is 70019, for 2150, 71310. I may use 50 on my next tractor, a 48 C, and I asked the dealer if he could mix the PPG equivalent, 70019. He can, but it comes up on his computer as a Chrysler color. Sorry if this is confusing.

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Rod (NH)

03-05-2006 19:46:38




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 Re: Finally gonna paint! in reply to Dad's B, 03-05-2006 16:32:33  
Hi Jeff,

Only a couple of cautions to add to what CNKS said. I haven't used a lacquer-type surfacer in quite a while now, but I am a little nervous with them. They are very fast dry. It's relatively easy to get dry spray with 'em, especially in warm weather and with a fast evaporating solvent. My concerns are either bridging of sandscratches or inadequate dry time before topcoating, either of which can let sandscratches show up after topcoating. I know the tech sheet says 30 minutes to sand and topcoat. If I were doing it with the 181, I'd wait until the next day. I want to be sure the stuff is dry all the way through, not just on the surface. Depending on what air-emissions quality zone you are in, you may be forced to buy the MS250 solvent at the same time you buy the 181, whether you plan on using it or not! I understand it is simply acetone, a solvent that is exempt from VOC emission regulations. Acetone is a fast evaporating solvent. My personal preference, if I were doing it, would be to use the MR187, slow-dry reducer instead. It's permitted by the tech sheet although there is a note to indicate non-compliance with the "National Rule". I have never used the 181 so take this with a grain of salt. In the past, I always used a slow lacquer thinner when using a lacquer-type surfacer and I am just carrying that preference over to the 181. Certainly if this is done, I would recommend waiting until the next day to sand and topcoat. Once you get the surfacer on the epoxy, there is no specific time window for topcoating. You should make sure your final sand of the surfacer is with nothing coarser than 400 grit prior to applying the topcoat. It's also a good idea to do a final quick swipe with the 330 just before tacking off and topcoating.

The other caution is with the OMNI MAE acrylic enamel w/o hardener. There is a question on the recoatability of that product. I have never used it that way so I can't be certain. In days past, enamels w/o hardeners could not be recoated in a reasonable time after initial dry w/o wrinkling and lifting of the previous paint film. The MAE tech sheet does not address recoating. I have asked PPG before about that. They do not recommend recoating MAE w/o hardener - period. They are probably conservative, but it's not a good way to find out they're not when you try to sand out runs or orange peel the next day and repaint a part only to have the paint wrinkle on you. As a matter of prudence, I would not recommend planning to fix any errors that might develop in the color coats - at least not w/o a verification test on a junk part. Treat it as "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" after that last color coat is applied. I have nothing against MAE and have recommended it for those w/o fresh air breathing equipment. You just need to know going in that there might be a recoating issue with it.

third party image Rod

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CNKS

03-05-2006 17:44:45




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 Re: Finally gonna paint! in reply to Dad's B, 03-05-2006 16:32:33  
You won't find anything on the cans except safety precautions and the ratio of paint to reducer. You need to read the product sheets given in the link to PPG's web site. Rod(NH) has a method of posting them all in one post, but, being lazy I have never taken time to learn his method. So, in the link, which is alphabetical, thus easy to use, you need to read about the following: MP 170,171, or 172 epoxy primer depending on what color you want, they are the same product. There is a hardener or catalyst used with 170, but it does NOT contain isocyanates. Use it on the cast and sheet metal. MP 181 primer surfacer, used on the sheet metal only, not necessary on cast, steering post and shaft, generator, etc, at least not as for as I'm concerned, and may used on the battery box and seat if you are picky. Use MP181 OVER the 170, two or three coats, let it flash between coats, 10 minutes or whatever the instructions say, let it dry, sand smooth and repeat the process until you are satisfied it is smooth. The MAE Acrylic Enamel, apply "three coats or until hiding". MAE IS THE ONLY OMNI TOPCOAT YOU CAN USE WITHOUT HARDENER. If you have dents, etc to fill, do that first, of course. Use a tack rag to remove dust and lint, etc before using any of the paints. This is the simplified version -- Read the P-sheets first and ask anything you are not clear on. The only prep before 170 is to sand with 180 grit or coarser, a wire wheel is ok on the cast,as it does not sand easily. You will have extreme difficulty cleaning the cast with 330, it WILL be dirty. I know of no easy way unless you have a steam cleaner, after which you will still need the 330. Sand the sheet metal with 180, it will be relatively easy to clean with 330. Then use a tack rag and apply two coats of the 170 per the instructions on the P-sheet -- no trick to that. Flash time for 170 is 5 or 10 minutes, or MAE or 181 can be applied 30 minutes after that. It MUST be primed or topcoated within 72 hrs, or you have to scuff and reapply -- this makes sure the 181 or MAE will bond properly. 181 can be sanded when dry, about 30 minutes or after it is dry -- all this is at 70 degrees, will be more if cooler, I wouldn't paint below 65. It can also be topcoated after 30 minutes. Far as I know there is no time limit on topcoating 181 as there is 170, but you might as well finish what you start. I never get all that done in one day. Rod, B-maniac, or others will add anything I leave out. I likely forgot something.

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