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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

B-maniac...

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Rod (NH)

03-16-2006 17:16:50




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B---,

I think you said you use PPG products. Are you familiar with their "Flexibilizer", DX814? I see in the tech sheet for Deltron single stage (Concept Acrylic Urethane) that DX814 is a recommended additive for "Flexing DCC". The DX814 tech sheet indicates that when used, "will...withstand the customary abuse of impact and flexing in topcoats and undercoats during and after installation...". I have read somewhere in the past that flex additives were really only effective during installation of plastic bumpers, etc and that after full cure of the film, they had no effect at all - but don't know how true that is. I have never used a flex additive and am wondering if the DX814 might improve after-cure chip resistance on parts that don't necessarily flex. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

Thanks,
Rod

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B-maniac

03-16-2006 18:28:27




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 Re: B-maniac... in reply to Rod (NH), 03-16-2006 17:16:50  
In my opinion,you heard correctly.I havn't used that exact product.I havn't painted/replaced urethane bumper covers in ten years. Back then we had better results on factory primered covers just scotchbriting them and shooting a coat of epoxy primer and then painting.( I know,I use that epoxy for everything.I call it "glue" because in my opinion it binds everything together". I have tried what you are asking about in the past,with no better abrasion resistance,but like I said,not with this product. They may have made improvements since what I used. Don't even remember what it was now. I have never found anything to add to or apply over paint that helped AND still looked good.The closest I have found is true polyurethane clear.Duponts' is Imron/ PPGs'I believe is DC 1000. I used it on my GTO 6 yrs. ago. No water spots,no bird crap etching,no die back ( I did sand and buff after cured 1 yr. What a pain,that stuff's hard as nails.) It's expensive,slow drying and overspray is like glue.I won't use it on a tractor (overkill) but I'm glad I did on the car. I have wiped pine sap off with laquer thinner and didn't phase it.(not recomended) I have had pretty good luck against chipping with the system I use. I truely believe that a chemical bond is superior to a mechanical bond. The only mechanical bond I have would be to the bare metal or body filler and then after I sand the surfacer. In those 2 cases I lay down epoxy (glue) first. You have probably already read why I use it as a sealer before paint. As far as a sealer, I do reduce it a bit with PPG 870 reducer.I do use Omni epoxy now (1/2 price of PPG)but still use 870 to reduce for sealing.(advice from PPG fact rep.)I believe this one step has a lot to do with why most chips only go to the primer.(mechanical bond unless epoxy sealed.)Epoxy "bites" into sand scratches beter than top-coats. This is all just my experiences but it's served me very well for a lot of years and I think I have tried just about every "better mousetrap" that's came out. There is one method of using alkyed enamel that I and others have used with excellent success and I have never seen it on here yet. Instead of reducing it to spray,you thin it by setting the can on a elect. hot plate and heating it until it's thin to spray.You can really dump it on for flow,without runs, because the warm paint hits the cool surface and just flat stays put! Dries out of dirt quicker too because there is no reducer to evaporate out. Simple,easy,cheap and looks great! (for a while....it's still alkyd enamel) No fire danger,it probably is only maybe 90-100 degrees to get it thin. Hope I answered your question..I just get tooo long on these. sorry.
Also if you want to see what my paint crew at the factory does all day punch in www.morbark.com

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Rod (NH)

03-17-2006 06:12:09




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 Re: B-maniac... in reply to B-maniac, 03-16-2006 18:28:27  
I fully agree with the epoxy. Great stuff. I used to use DP40 back when they had the lead in it and it was only available in gray-green. I once put two coats of that (after sandblast) on a portion of a Honda cowling that stayed outside in the NH weather all the time, not topcoated, for years with no rust showing through. The gray-green had faded some but the protection seemed as good as new. In more recent years PPG took the lead out and called it DPLF. I also have changed over to the OMNI MP170 because of cost savings. It seems to do fine but I don't know if it would compare with the old DP on long term, direct exposure. I don't think there is a better bare metal primer than epoxy - no isos, great adhesion and superb corrosion protection. I notice you are also a promoter of epoxy first and then plastic filler rather than the more usual other way around. I am too. I like to get the epoxy down just as soon as possible, especially on a sandblasted surface. I can dub around with filler here and there as needed at my leasure, as long as I get it done within the epoxy time window. It is said that the adhesion of the filler is not as good that way as if it were applied direct to metal with at least an 80 grit scratch. That may be but I have never had a problem with filler separating from the epoxy under it. Unless one is expecting it to hold up in a demolition derby, I think the adhesion of filler on top of epoxy, if done properly, is entirely adequate for all normal situations.

The "hot spray" method (trick?) you talk about for alkyds has been around a long time. I seem to recall reading about it way back in the '60s regarding DuPont's Dulux. I think I would prefer to set the paint can in a container of hot water that is on the hot plate, rather than directly. That should provide a more even heating to the paint. I have never tried it and you're right, it hasn't been discussed in this forum - at least not since I've been coming here.

Boy, that's some heavy equipment your guys are painting. Glad to see your part of the operation got a spot in the "virtual factory tour". Is that your feet we see? Ha, Ha, Ha.

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