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PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC

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n444

03-29-2006 10:34:28




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Have read many articles on this site about the dangers of isocyanides paints or hardeners and how you need a fresh air supply. I want to use a filtered mask to paint with and keep it safe. I have used central tractor paint on a case SC, looked good for about 3 yrs, now color is fading. I would like to use better paint but without the dangers of isocyanides, this a hobby and I don’t want to take the fun out of it. My work is good but not professional, gets better with ever tractor. What paint or brand would you guys recommend for a Case DC flambeau red and stay safe?

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B-maniac

03-31-2006 17:14:22




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to n444, 03-29-2006 10:34:28  
IMHO , if you got 3 yrs out of it before fade you did good.You won't get any more than that on an "outside" tractor without going to the good stuff. It's the same ole rule "you get what you pay for". You can probably rub it once a year and still get a couple more out of it .



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Seth_ia

03-29-2006 20:20:54




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to n444, 03-29-2006 10:34:28  
just my two cents, but talk to your case IH dealer. They can order many of the old case colors. Their paints are acrylic modified enamels. For my money I like the paint and you won't drop over dead. Dupont does have a water bourne line. Have not used it, but am going to try it this summer hopefully.



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Rod (NH)

03-29-2006 17:53:41




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to n444, 03-29-2006 10:34:28  
You can get some options from this previous thread. You will need to verify the proper color, even though you have a code, before purchasing any large amount of paint from any manufacturer.



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CNKS

03-29-2006 14:44:21




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to n444, 03-29-2006 10:34:28  
Problem with what SouNdguy does is that iso's may give no warning, the 1st attack can be quite severe. It depends on your resistance to iso's. I have had the beginning effects with very minimal exposure to them. I quickly learned to use my supplied air even if I was only going to be painting a couple of minutes. A hobby painter has no way of getting the iso concentration down to where a charcoal mask is safe. Also, all charcoal masks do the same thing, there really is no rating system -- a "cheap" one is as good as the best 3M, etc one you can buy. A full face charcoal mask will keep the iso's out of your eyes, but won't help your lungs any more than a half mask. That said you can use acrylic enamel from PPG, DuPont, etc. It can be used without hardener and is better than the alkyd enamel you are currently using. I believe all the major manufacturers also have what are called "acrylic modified" alkyd enamels, also can be used without hardener, possibly as good as acrylic, I have not used any of those. These are usually in their industrial lines and I do not know if the color you want can be mixed. Check with your paint supplier. Both acrylic enamel and acrylic modified enamel have UV inhibitors added to reduce fading. Not as good as hardened urethanes, but better than the run of the mill tractor store paint. You can also clean and wax your existing paint to bring the color out, but if it is outside you need to repeat every month or two -- never seen a wax job last longer than that on the old style paints.

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souNdguy

03-30-2006 06:37:36




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to CNKS, 03-29-2006 14:44:21  
To be fair, i did mention that the average hobby painter had no equipment to be able to test iso concentration in the atmosphere.

As for getting concentrations down... Mother nature does that if there is -any- wind. While I don't paint in moderate wind... I've never been lucky enough to be ready to paint on a 'still' day. I can always percieve a slow breeze.. Once you have aire movement.. safety goes way up. ( again.. no way to check this without equipment.. etc )

Soundguy

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CNKS

03-30-2006 12:12:10




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to souNdguy, 03-30-2006 06:37:36  
It is my understanding that Rod(NH) got sick painting outside, he can correct me. The wind, 2 mph or 20 mph swirls that stuff all around you. take a can of oven cleaner on a windy day and pretend you are putting it on a tractor (no mask), I guarantee you that you will smell it. In the case of iso's, it is the stuff you can't smell that gets you. Inside or outside, you are still way above the safe limit --.

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souNdguy

03-30-2006 12:28:17




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to CNKS, 03-30-2006 12:12:10  
I gues that's the one thing I like about florida.. when we have wind.. it's wind.. Our land is flat an open... if you let a plastig bag go.. it goes.. no swirls. When I clean my paint gun at the end of the painting session.. I can only point it in one direction.. whereever our florida breeze is going.. the vaporized naptha is very easy to see leaving the gun. Generally I still have my mask on for cleaning.. but occasionally not. I usually don't smell any naptha while spraying downwind.. However, when I walk into the garage to grab wrags to wipe the bowl out I can smell it plenty good, just inthe minute or so it takes to grab the rag and wipe the bowl. Again.. this I feel is a regional issue.. and I'm not sure whether it is 'lucky' or not.. as I'd much prefer to paint in still air.. as it is, i have to disassemble extra items, extra times.., and creatively park so I am only spraying down wind.. otherwise it's useles..

Soundguy

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CNKS

03-30-2006 14:00:17




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to souNdguy, 03-30-2006 12:28:17  
35 mph constant today, gusts to 45 or 50. Just a "normal" Kansas day.



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souNdguy

03-30-2006 21:09:34




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to CNKS, 03-30-2006 14:00:17  
Kansas.. Didn't know you lived there. Nice. Then you and I -DO- know something about storms.. I heard kansas got hit earlier this month just like parts of florida.. bad wind..

good luck, especially during the storm season...

Soundguy



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CNKS

03-31-2006 05:53:07




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to souNdguy, 03-30-2006 21:09:34  
You get hurricanes, we get tornadoes. Tornadoes are usually isolated and don't do widespread damage. Unless it's your property, or they pass through a town. Hurricanes typically damage a large area. Tornadoes strike without warning, you can take shelter, but you can't evacuate ahead of time as with a hurricane. I wish I lived someplace where there were neither, as you can be wiped out in an instant with either one.

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souNdguy

03-31-2006 20:45:31




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to CNKS, 03-31-2006 05:53:07  
I just saw in the newspaper today where florida is predicted to see more 'record' hurricane season this year... I think I'm gonna go hang the white flag up now... Might as well go ahead and buy another pack of bottled water, and clean the dust all my gas cans!!!

Soundguy



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Whoops

03-29-2006 15:03:16




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to CNKS, 03-29-2006 14:44:21  
"Also, all charcoal masks do the same thing, there really is no rating system" Shouldn't have said that. All charcoal masks on the market are certified by NIOSH. "--a cheap one is as good as the best 3M, etc one you can buy." Not going to change that one, except that it must be certified for organic vapors. Most manufacturers will include paints in the organic vapor category, with the qualification "except iso containing paints". Going to shut up now.

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souNdguy

03-29-2006 12:20:39




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 Re: PAINTING SAFE WITH OUT ISOC in reply to n444, 03-29-2006 10:34:28  
That's a tricky situation. I paint with BPS paints, and use their hardner. After much research, it was determined that there was some conflicting info.. or at the very least.. quite vauge.. on what was accceptable protection. Most notable it came down to knowing the iso concentration in the air.

Myself, personally, I paint out in the open air, and use a good fitting filter mask ( shave that morning), and the highest rated organic/chemical cartridges that I can find.

Out of habbit I tend to hold my breath when making spray passes anyway.. so that's a plus.. though.. i can;'t help but think it is positive, in case of incedental exposure, as you won't find a cartridge that states it is 'safe' for iso's.. ( hydrogen sulfide.. yes.. go figure! )

According to the valspar hardner, .. if you knew the iso concentration in the local atmosphere was below some 'x' threshold.. then that setup is 'acceptable'.. providing you are not sensitive to the mterials being applied.. however, as many of the pro's here point out.. how many of us 'once a year' hobby painters have concentration checking equipment... etc.

I feel fairly safe , exposure wise, painting outdoors, with a good mask,not a little niosh job.. but a real rubber mask with cartridges.. that fits snugly.. making a few shots, then walking back, then going back in for a few more shots. but that's my painting style.. hit it.. step back and look at it, then thit it more. i personally find it easier to spot problem areas like potential runs, etc, by stepping back to look at the big picture.

I'd also like to ad dthat I've never felt the least bit weird after do ing this, or during clenup. I hear some people sensitive to iso stuff, can even have problems just smelling the curing 'fresh' paint, or cleaning the gun. These people really shoul simply avoid the job.. get a fresh air mask.. or hire it out... guess if you were scuba certified.. this may be less of an issue!

Anyway... um.. there was no "advice" in there.. just relating what i do.. and what chemicals i use. I have a feeling that the hardner I use is of a lesser grade, and thus may contain lesser amounts of iso compounds than more expensive an 'better' products.. though it is ahrd to say as that info was very vayuge on the MSDS... so be safe and make good decisions whatever you do...

Soundguy

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