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Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO?

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jubilee johnny

05-20-2006 06:04:26




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I'm sort of new on this forum but I really like the exchange of ideas. I have been involved in autobody work since the late sixties but have come to realize the old saying "its what you learn after you know it all that counts" is really true. The other day when Bill Brady said his brand, quality, and procedure were not up for discussion I also wondered with Capt. Obviously Not why he needed any input in the first place. In my spare time I am a dentist and if a patient came to me and told me I want all my teeth pulled and dentures made and that is not up for discussion I would examine them and let them know if that was clinically a good idea for them or not. If I didn't think so I would tell them they would have to find someone else to do it as there would be too many problems down the road, in my opinion. Many of those who "weren't listening" to alternatives came back to me later after finding a dentist who would do what they wanted just because they asked, and told me they wished they had listened.....

The point is we may have a set plan to prep and paint something, but there may be something we hadn't thought of in our plan that the wisdom of someone else in the forum can point out.

Perhaps Bill Grady was just wanting to get some of us stirred up and using our keyboards. I'd like him to let us know in 3 or 4 years how things went with his plan

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souNdguy

05-20-2006 22:01:41




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to jubilee johnny, 05-20-2006 06:04:26  
""The other day when Bill Brady said his brand, quality, and procedure were not up for discussion I also wondered with Capt. Obviously Not why he needed any input in the first place.""

Now see.. when i read that message.. I had a whole different take on it entirely.

The way i read it.. thee guy already had his 'economy' spray paint hardware.. a cheaper gun, and perhaps a cheaper air compressor.. He had also chosen economy paint. He asked for information for other variables, but not those.. he defined in his question, that those were 'fixed' values, and then wanted some people to fill in the rest of the blanks. I take it the reason he worded his question that was was this: There are quite a few profesional painters here... The pro's, and the serious hobbiest, have expensive paint gear, and use expensive paint. This guy said he's going to use 25$ a gallon paint.. not 200$ a gallon paint.. I fail to see why peopl ehave a problem with that.. he's painting his tractor.. not yours... if he wants to do it with flat latex wall paint.. so be it.. it's his tractor. Same with the hardware...

Considering I use the same 9$ chinese gun he probably uses, and also, 8 of my tractors have that 25$ a gallon paint on them.. I thought his questions were ok... Non of my tractors are on display at museums.. nor do I expect they will be in my lifetime anyway..thus for working clothes, or just something to keep the elements of fthem.. I'm happy with the cheap paint and the cheap gun that put the cheap paint down... etc

That's my take anyway...

Soundguy

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CNKS

05-21-2006 07:03:09




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to souNdguy, 05-20-2006 22:01:41  
It was not the paint, it was his no-compromise sarcastic attitude. He acted as if he was putting down those of us who use more expensive equipment and paint. This is a free forum, many people including you and me are going to get answers we don't want to hear. You have posted many times on this forum, and I think I know where you are coming from, I don't always agree but I know you have found a system you like. I will continue to try to steer people who have not painted, and thus do not know the differences in paint, to a somewhat higher dollar paint than alkyd enamel and try to explain the difference to them. You can do otherwise, and we will let the guy make his own decision once he has studied the situation. As an apple and orange comparison, at current gasoline/diesel prices, the difference in cost between alkyd enamel and acrylic enamel (I will leave urethane out of the equation) is about one tank of gas, base on 2.65/gal and a typical 23 gallon fill-up in my pickup ($60.95). When things get expensive, I try to look at my goals and put things in perspective.

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souNdguy

05-21-2006 21:14:25




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to CNKS, 05-21-2006 07:03:09  
Maybee everyone saw something I didn't. My take was the guys stated he had 'x' equipment and 'x' materials to do the work with, and then just wanted some other details filled in. I never got the feeling that he was putting anybody down.. especially not the pro and serious hobby painters.. in fact.. it sounded like he was acknowledging the fact that he knew he had commited to economy products and hardware.. but just wanted some technique info.. etc.

That's my take anyway. Though I'm satisfied with my paint jobs, i don't consider myself any better than a 'hack' paint jobber... Can't hold a candle to the pro and serious hobby painters here. Fortunately, the average 'economy' paint job i turn out is still 2x and 3x better than a rattlecan job, or a brush / roller job that you see at alot of shows... Paint materials aside... the spraygun is really a decent way to paint.. event he cheap 9$ guns... soooo much better that the spraybombs...

Soundguy

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davpal

05-20-2006 11:02:21




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to jubilee johnny, 05-20-2006 06:04:26  
I have had to go to leadership training at work for a few years and in the classes you learn about the different personalities of people and how you deal with them. A lot of personalities are really not compatible. If you take a group of say 12 workers you will have about 6 average workers and 3 below average workers and 3 above average workers. The 3 above average workers will offset the 3 below average workers so you end up with 12 average workers and that is how most compainies in this country are ran. Now if you "cherry pick" your workers you will end up with all above average workers, much like what a pro sports team will do or even in military like the seals, rangers, green berets. Now you have all exceptional people but it also comes with exceptional egos which can lead to problems unless you have a coach to keep the egos in check. I have found the same things apply at work or with any projects in general. Some people will tear into it and work very hard and get it done very fast with a few flaws but finished none the less. Other people will never start it and completely abandon the project without ever touching it. Some will pick away at something for 30 years restoring an old car and it will be perfect someday. I just know from all the time at work and all the classes we are all different and we attack things from different angles. When items are all flying in different directions towards the same object, or subject there are bound to be some collisions! In other words we just need to realize that and find ways to respect everybones differences. Peace people! I have to go mow the lawn and wash wax and clean interiors of two cars. The sun is finally shining.

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Dan9-Midwest

05-20-2006 09:24:19




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to jubilee johnny, 05-20-2006 06:04:26  
I too, am fairly new to this forum and perhaps can offer an "outsider" opinion or add to the discussion. The difficulty is one of ideology and understanding of opinion. I happen to be in similarly qualified profession and buy and sell farm equipment as a therapy. I do not want to spend $500--or $300--for a paint job because a, I dont want to and b, I don't need to on resale equipment. Now, I have fancy vehicles, one of which has a multi thousand high class prep and paint job. But I dont want to on resale farm equipment. I don't want to.
That said, some guys here are brilliant with lots of experience and it is valuable. It's no big deal but I am looking for that information so I can make the decesion that suits me and don't want a particular subjective opinion forced. I don't want it.
You might use amalgam(sp)filling and others might use white plastic but once your mind is made up a salesman might get a listen but won't be back if he keeps pounding the drum and tells you how wrong you are. He's not you.
I think that's what this is all about.
Guys need to understand not all people think alike. If someone does not want a particular portion of someone's opinion, the other person has to understand that and not be hurt.
I learned a lot about painting here and now try to use the best paint i can find for a particular purpose. I learned that here. I would never spray ISOs incorrectly and learned it here.
Now if I could only get my question answered concerning a gravity or bottom feed paint gun and which is best for resale farm equipment and which is easier to clean i could die a happy man.

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CNKS

05-20-2006 14:44:20




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to Dan9-Midwest, 05-20-2006 09:24:19  
Spray gun? What are you used to? If you are only used to suction feed you may not like gravity feed (HVLP), as it requires another technique to learn. Some make the transition easily, others simply don't like it. If you have never painted, IMO there is no question -- HVLP. It is simply easier to learn. No drips, no runs, no errors (well maybe a few). And yes 20+ years ago I did use suction feed on my very first paint job -- I did not like it, but HVLP had not been invented yet. Had I stuck with it -- I didn't paint again for 20 years--I might not like HVLP today.

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jubilee johnny

05-20-2006 11:05:35




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to Dan9-Midwest, 05-20-2006 09:24:19  
I do give my patients choices in most things. But I do try to give them the pros and cons of each, particularly if one lasts longer than another and if there is a measureable cost difference. The example I gave above is when I feel a person may end up with needless damage to the bone if it is unwarrented.



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Rod (NH)

05-20-2006 10:16:18




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to Dan9-Midwest, 05-20-2006 09:24:19  
Hi Dan9,

All answers to questions wind up being opinions but I think yours is an easy one. I am not a fan of gravity feed guns (or even suction guns for that matter). However, they are the easiest to clean, no question, and I don't think there can be many disagreements on that. But you never know :). There can be other reasons to dislike them such as: 1) can't set 'em down w/o buying or making a special holding device, 2) having the paint weight above your wrist rather than below and 3) not having the cup cap on tight, if it's a friction cap, can result in the dumping of the entire contents all over yourself and the part your trying to paint (bad personal experience). But cleaning is not one of them. They clearly excel at that. I'll also offer an unsolicited opinion: If you do a lot of farm equipment painting requiring a lot of out-of-position work and spray significant amounts in a single setting (say a quart or more), you might want to consider a pressure feed, remote cup arrangement - my favorite. But that is harder to clean (not significantly more so than a suction or bottom feed gun though) and is unrealistic to use for smaller individual parts done at different times.

third party image Rod

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1030 brian

05-20-2006 06:17:53




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 Re: Why post of you don't want to know- El CHEAPO? in reply to jubilee johnny, 05-20-2006 06:04:26  
I think that he just got frustrated because it took so long for anyone to answer his one question, "do I use primer and hardner or not". He obviously knew about the TSC paints. Oh well just my 2 Cents
Brian



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