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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Paint gun

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mirt

06-13-2006 11:49:04




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OK...I'm going to start painting the "beast" cub 149 I bought last year. I have plenty of info on preparation and primer and paint. What I need is recommendations on a decent paint gun for around $100 (father's day gift to myself). Be honest, if you can't get one for that price, I'd like the opinion anyway. Model numbers/manufacturers would help a great deal.

Thanks, Marty




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Greg 77

06-24-2006 17:08:07




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to mirt, 06-13-2006 11:49:04  
I going to give you another option. I got one of my first better guns off Ebay a few years ago. It's a Mattson and is a top of the line gun. You can get them for around $100.00 more or less used on Ebay. I've got a Sata 2000, Devilibiss 670 Plus, and a Finishline gun among several others. But when it comes to general painting in the shop I usually grab one of the Mattson guns I have. Had a discussion with my paint supplier a couple of days ago and that what he uses as his personal gun also. He has about 10 different top of the line guns in stock.

Greg

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sammy the RED

06-16-2006 06:32:20




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to mirt, 06-13-2006 11:49:04  
I tested 3 guns. A Cobalt, Binks & Sata.
Sata was best.
Binks was avg.
Cobalt was poor.



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CNKS

06-16-2006 08:03:43




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to sammy the RED, 06-16-2006 06:32:20  
Cobalt comes in primer and finish setups. Neither is as good as Sharpe's higher line guns. You get what you pay for. I have a Cobalt primer gun, which is ok for what I use it for. I haven't used Devilbiss or Binks, but I believe Sata is considered top of the line -- should be for the price. I just purchased a Sata touchup gun, eager to see if it out-performs my Sharpe. If so I may take out a loan and buy a full size.

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Rod (NH)

06-16-2006 18:27:52




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to CNKS, 06-16-2006 08:03:43  
CN,

I wonder how Len at autobodystore.com gets around the current SATA policy prohibiting internet sales. As far as I know, SATA is the only spray gun manufacturer to have such a restrictive policy. To me, it only serves to keep their prices artificially high ($500 to $600 for their best RP3000 gun) by eliminating competitive pricing at the retail level, presumably justified by "quality service" considerations that most consumers, especiallly DIYs, likely will never use, even if theoretically available to them. I just doubt that twice the "street" price of other high quality name-brand spray guns (in comparable premium lines, of course) results in a similar (or even significant) performance increase. Case in point: the best DeVilbiss reduced pressure compliant gun (GFG-670 "Plus") lists at $562 (spraygundepot.com). That's a similar list price to SATA's best reduced pressure compliant gun, the 3000RP. Len sells the DeVilbiss for $300 and the SATA for $550. I have seen the SATA elsewhere for over $600. Color me sceptical but it looks to me like SATA is for those where price is no object and bragging rights are worth something. They certainly seem to have almost a "cult" following. They also have $ex appeal judging from their website. Maybe that's where the extra dollars go.

Rod

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CNKS

06-16-2006 19:32:15




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to Rod (NH), 06-16-2006 18:27:52  
I haven't shopped around, didn't know about the no internet thing -- I don't want to pay $550, might consider $450. Since I've done most of my major painting, I don't need it right now anyway. I bought the Sata touch up gun because my Sharpe does not quite give me the atomization I was wanting, certainly not as good as my Sharpe Platinum, which is a good gun. I simply want to try a "premium" gun and see what kind of results I get. Thus the touchup gun. Sometimes I spend more money than I should to determine if the quality is there. Other times I buy Chinese knockoffs if I think I can get by with lower quality. Such as my pressure blaster and cabinet blaster, which together cost less than your TP blasting cabinet -- I got what I paid for, but I get by with them, so far. Paint guns I don't want to compromise much on -- but I don't want to spend $550 either.

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CNKS

06-16-2006 20:25:26




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to CNKS, 06-16-2006 19:32:15  
As to the internet sales, several suppliers have them available. I read the link on their policy that you provided. I know what it says, but I can buy one over the internet. I believe they are drop shipped from the manufacturer, and have the factory warranty, like everything else I have ordered has. There is a Sata 2000 at Tool Paradise for $388. That is tempting, but is a lot of money for something that may not be that much better than what I already have. Too many other things to spend $388 on -- but --

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Rod (NH)

06-17-2006 14:10:07




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to CNKS, 06-16-2006 20:25:26  
I got that SATA link from Spray Gun Depot. They do not sell SATA anymore. I believe they used to but cannot prove it by any links. That's why I was wondering how Len (and apparently others too) can get away with continuing internet sales. The directive from the manufacturer to distributors seems very clear and firm. Perhaps they haven't started serious enforcement actions yet. Or products currently in the pipeline are exempt. Or the distributors are pursuing legal action to prevent implementation or otherwise dragging their feet trying to avoid compliance. Don't know.

You certainly will never know for sure if a SATA gun will be worth the extra cost to you unless you try one for yourself. Other's opinions are just that - opinions. SATA does seem to emphasize service so maybe you could get a loaner from a local dealer for a "try before you buy" evaluation. If you are going to purchase one on the internet, I'd do it sooner rather than later though. That means of purchase might stop abruptly at any time given the SATA directive. You might also give Len a call and get the straight poop on internet sales from him. I see you can save about $50 by avoiding the digital models with the built-in pressure gage.

I am a little surprised that you are not satisfied with the atomization of your Sharp spot gun. If it's the one I think it is, however, the 1.4mm tip seems quite large for a spot gun unless you're spraying surfacer with it. That could be some of the problem - I think it's somewhat unusual for a spot gun. My newer HVLP spot gun has a 1.0mm tip. Even my (very) old non-HVLP suction feed spot gun has a 1.0mm tip. The smaller patterns and lower fluid flow rates of spot guns just do not require the larger tip sizes that you normally find on full sized guns. I have always been satisfied with the atomization of either of mine. You could try increasing the air pressure on your Sharp to improve it. I suspect your SATA spot will have something like a 1.0mm tip and should work fine right out of the box at the recommended max pressure setting.

I've nothing against SATA as a brand - except for what I think is an excessive relative cost. But I have never used one either. I am sure they are top-of-the-line guns. I just happen to believe that a perfectly acceptable finish (even on automobiles) can be obtained without going to that price extreme. Perhaps I am just not demanding enough.

Rod

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CNKS

06-17-2006 17:44:38




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to Rod (NH), 06-17-2006 14:10:07  
I just ordered a Sata 2000 1.3 from Tool Paradise, partially because of your link, in case Sata enforces it, more than $100 off retail, I don't want to have to pay full price. If they do enforce it they are going to lose the business of us amatures. I also have a Sata 1.0 spot gun that I got this week, haven't used it yet -- I've spent more than enough money for now. As to your comment about tip size in a spot gun, I did not know that until I read it on another dealers site a couple of weeks ago. I have never seen that mentioned anywhere else, your comments about fluid flow and tip size makes sense, it just never occurred to me. But I think even Sata goes to 1.4. It seems that a 1.0 spot gun is equivalent to a 1.3 or 1.4 full size which makes my 1.3 Sharpe about a 1.6, thus the less than desirable atomization, just as you say. I will still use it as a primer gun. I will probably relegate my existing topcoat 1.3 gun to a primer gun, and use it for epoxy, as I have a 1.5 tip for it. I can then put the 1.8 tip back in my Cobalt and use it for MP 182, sort of like a fire hose, but I have a 1.5 in it now, which is a little small. Either way it has to be sanded anyway. All that and I will probably still have cooties in my paint, but I am still determined to figure that out. A person can never have too many guns, but I think I am now saturated. At least I didn't buy them all at once.

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Rod (NH)

06-18-2006 17:23:48




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to CNKS, 06-17-2006 17:44:38  
That's good. It sounds closer to what the price really should be in the first place. I doubt SATA as a company really cares much about DIYs. I suspect their primary market is the commercial shops that do most if not all of their (big) business through local "approved" jobbers, not the internet. They appear willing to discard whatever minimal market share they have among DIYs in order to "cater" better to their primary market and increase their share there. I think that's explicit in their directive emphasizing the service and training crap.

You should find the 1.0 tip works fine for MP170 in a spot gun. It works fine in mine. It goes downhill with the 182 surfacer but still works OK for sometime use, especially since most of it is going to be sanded off anyway. When I got mine, the only tip available was the 1.0. I see they (DeVilbiss) now have a 0.8 available for it. If SATA offers a 1.4 for their spot gun, it probably is for something like surfacer. A 1.0 in spot guns seems to be the most common general purpose size.

Rod

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CNKS

06-18-2006 18:13:25




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to Rod (NH), 06-18-2006 17:23:48  
The 1.3 in my Sharpe spot gun "works" for surfacer but the pattern isn't very good, but not much worse than the 1.5 pattern in my Cobalt, as you say it must be sanded anyway. I will continue to use the Sharpe for 182 on small parts, and try to dedicate my Sata spot gun to topcoats, as I will the 2000. I do have a $90 Ampro 1.0 spot gun I bought from Advance auto parts 3? years ago. I don't use it anymore, as it has lousy atomazation of about anything. I'm not ever going to buy a cheap gun again.

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1030 brian

06-13-2006 17:43:30




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to mirt, 06-13-2006 11:49:04  
Hi I just bought a sharpe titanium T1 "compliant" gun and a cobalt in a set for 215.00 at TP tools in Canfield OH. The T1 is an exellent gun for base/clear. Also one hell of a deal for the pair. Brian



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CNKS

06-13-2006 18:10:34




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to 1030 brian, 06-13-2006 17:43:30  
That was a good deal, I think the Titanium retails for close to $300 from some vendors. Let us know what you think of the compliant gun compared to "true" hvlp. My understanding of compliant is that it has the required 65% transfer efficiency, but can have a tip pressure of greater than 10 psi -- or anyone else who has actually used one can answer.



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1030 brian

06-14-2006 18:27:31




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to CNKS, 06-13-2006 18:10:34  
I used the titanium for the first time on Sunday and had exellent results. The overspray was a little more than my old Develbis finishline, and the sfg98 Sharp gun, both are hvlp, but the finish was a lot better than either gun. The fan is alot bigger with more atomized paint, so the finish has very little orange peel. Needless to say I'm very pleased with the results.



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CNKS

06-14-2006 19:02:42




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to 1030 brian, 06-14-2006 18:27:31  
Good--I'm asking this because I might buy another gun. I have a Sharpe Platinum, I think the Titanium replaced it, I have the HVLP version, not compliant, I was curious if they handled about the same. What tip size does yours have? I reduced my Platinum from the 1.5 it came with to 1.3. Pattern is a little smaller and gives better results. I don't need a wide pattern for tractors, at least not the size I paint. The advantage of the Platinum is that is only uses about 8 cfm of air, and gives a "soft" pattern, at least compared to my Cobalt, although the tip pressure is 10 psi on both. I think your Titanium uses 12-13. The atomization is much better with the Platinum that the Cobalt, which is also a high CFM gun.

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Rod (NH)

06-13-2006 17:43:25




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to mirt, 06-13-2006 11:49:04  
Hi Marty,

I agree with CNKS. In that price range, look into the DeVilbiss Finishline series or the Sharpe Finex series of guns. Those are two good brand names where you can get replacement/optional parts easily if needed. You can review some of these two "economy" series of guns, together with prices, here. Otherwise, it's probably the Chinese knock-offs that will be necessary to get you down into that price bracket. My guns are DeVilbiss but I don't have any personal experience with their Finishline series. What may be very important in your gun selection is your available compressed air capacity. You need to match (more or less) the cfm air demands of any gun you are considering with what you have available. If you are low on air capacity you may want to consider a mini spot gun, especially if your plan is to do much disassembly and painting of individual parts. The Devilbiss spot guns are expensive (>$200) but I see that Sharp has one in their Finex series for under $100.

third party image Rod

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CNKS

06-13-2006 16:57:09




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to mirt, 06-13-2006 11:49:04  
If you want a decent gun made (or imported) from a major manufacturer, Devilbiss Finishline. Sharpe also has an equivalent. I have not used either of them.



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jason(ma)

06-13-2006 17:11:17




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to CNKS, 06-13-2006 16:57:09  
I think I'd try the devilbiss next time. they have one that comes with a few different tips and you can use those bags. My sharpe cobalt didn't come with any tips and I haven't been able to get any bags for upsidedown painting.



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CNKS

06-13-2006 17:27:00




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 Re: Paint gun in reply to jason(ma), 06-13-2006 17:11:17  
The bags should work with the Cobalt. You can order them if no one has them locally. I have heard of making them with plastic grocery bags, also. I don't want to mess with them, I just spray the underside at an angle. Not the correct procedure, but it looks good to me. You can get tips for any Sharpe gun. I didn't like the 1.8 that came with my primer Cobalt, I replaced it with a 1.5. Someday I'm going to try the sprayable body filler, for that I'll probably get a 2.2, and hope I don't ruin the gun.

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mirt

06-14-2006 10:51:35




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 Thanks in reply to CNKS, 06-13-2006 17:27:00  
Great information!! Thanks for the responses, Marty



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