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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

recommendations for prime and paint

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mark from the f

07-31-2006 19:14:39




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I know this has been discussed a zillion times--I know because I have read most of them--and the more I read, them more I get confused.
Here is my question: WITHOUT supplied air, I would like the best material/steps to paint my fergy. She has been chemically stripped to bare metal (yes, she is starting to rust) and is very much disassembled and ready to start.
I know I will have to go over her for the rust, but then what????
Type of primer for cast? Type for sheetmetal?
Type of sandable surfacer for sheetmetal?
Best paint that can be shot without suppled air?
One of my concerns is a fella at a show painted his tractor and the first time he spilled gas on her-everything peeled down to the primer. Would like to aviod that-and other problems for a while.
I have spent ALOT of time on prep. and want to do it right. Thanks, I apologize for asking this for the 2,000 time-but too many opinions get confusing. Thanks Mark

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GordoSD

08-04-2006 08:12:24




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
Treat the metal with "Metal prep" to get at that surface rust. Then etch primer on the sheet metal, follow-up with sandable preimer-surfacer. Epoxy primer on the rest. Then choice of hi quality acrylic enamel or uerethane finish.

Gordo



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CNKS

08-04-2006 14:15:12




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to GordoSD, 08-04-2006 08:12:24  
Your method is fine, been used for decades. But, Metal prep is somewhat dated. I would rather he sand off the rust, perhaps treat it with Picklex 20 (sometimes I do sometimes I don't), then use epoxy primer, then sandable surfacer, then topcoat. Picklex will neutralize surface or flash rust. I simply feel better removing it all first, particularly since sheet metal is easy to sand. Etch is not necessary on sanded metal. Metal prep has to be washed off and primed soon after, no such requirement with Picklex.

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CNKS

08-01-2006 17:00:39




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
If you INSIST on not buying a supplied air system, your only alternative is what Jason said: Epoxy on all, sandable surfacer on the sheet metal, acrylic enamel on everything. Why are you worried about gasoline? Fergusons don't have exposed gas tanks? Tank is under the hood? Just use a big funnel.



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Daniel H.

08-01-2006 16:20:06




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
One more thing, the epoxy primers are great, but watch the recoat window. You must apply the top coat within a certain time frame (usually 3 to 7 days, depending on product) or you must scuff it up and apply another coat of epoxy right before the top coat.



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Rod (NH)

08-01-2006 15:34:21




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
Hi Mark,

Sorry, but I don't think you can get there from here. Once you take supplied-air out of the picture you have limited your choices and the durability of the final product. A significant problem with that is gasoline resistance. An uncatalyzed (unhardened) enamel can be expected to lift like crazy when subject to gasoline, as your acquaintance found out - at least until it is fully cured, perhaps months after it is applied. If gasoline resistance is a high priority for you, then you cannot avoid having to make a supplied-air/personal safety decision - unless you have someone else spray at least the topcoat. I basically agree with what Jason said. I can be more specific if you wish as to exact materials w/o supplied-air but you'll need to keep gasoline off it. Even after time, when it is cured enough so it doesn't lift, it will likely stain when subjected to gasoline.

I can appreciate your confusion concerning the multitude of products out there and the potentially many different opinions as to what is "best" or what is "right" with no discussion of costs involved. Unfortunately compromises sometimes have to made, usually for economic reasons. If you decide to pursue the specific DPLF and DCC products mentioned in this thread, take a fat wallet - you'll need it. The extra money for those over other similar products for tractor work could be put to better use on a supplied-air system in my opinion. But that's your call.

third party image Rod

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MARK FROM THE FORT

08-01-2006 14:32:29




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
Many thanks to all.!!
Just like I wanted it: product for each phase and many tips. Perfect.



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Brad_bb

08-01-2006 13:21:52




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
You are correct. I was focusing on the best way in my post rather than the safe way. I have painted with these products in a booth wearing a respirator. I don"t do it that often and the risk was much less in the booth. I have recently changed though and bought a fresh air hood (Hobby air)to go along with a used oil-less compressor (Stewart Warner SAS) for fresh air. I will likely be using it for the first time -in the booth - this weekend. I think if he did the painting outside while wearing a good respriator, he could probably get away with it as long as he wasn"t doing it on a regular basis. I didn"t offically say that though. As you see i am moving towards ever more safety. The most important part in the process to durability is the cleaning and sealing in Epoxy. Though the epoxy does need to be topcoated for UV protection. I think the acrylic urethane is the best way to go for chemical resistance, color holdout (won"t fade in sun), and all around durability.

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B-maniac

08-01-2006 13:59:27




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to Brad_bb, 08-01-2006 13:21:52  
Hate to tell you this(I learned the hard way) but if you print it on here IT'S OFFICIAL,no matter what disclaimers you put on it.(see post below (safe paint/durable paint). I agree 100% with you ;acrylic urethane or poly-urethane with catylists,used correctly,are the best and if everything underneath is also,you shouldn't ever have to do this machine again.To me, that's ECONOMY.



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B-maniac

08-01-2006 12:48:00




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
Brad-bb pretty much hit it all on the head,though there are two things in his post that bother me.DCC is a single stage acrylic urethane.Single stage only means it doesn"t require a clear coat.It DOES require a catylist with iso"s and so does any 2-part sprayable filler that I know of. You said in your post "WITHOUT SUPPLIED AIR" so these two are out. To fill your requirements on the paint ,I would use an acrylic enamel without hardner.One thing you can do on a non-catylized ,air dry paint if you know a body shop that has infrared baking option in their booth,you may be able to pay them to cure your paint from the bottom up,which will make it more durable and quicker.Make sure and check manufacturers directions on baking first!!!

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Brad_bb

08-01-2006 11:30:51




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
First, I"m not positive what you mean by supplied air. I must assume you have compressed air. By suppied air I assume you mean a fresh air hood.
I"m glad you asked how to do it right. Here goes:
Wash your sheetmetal one piece at a time with PPG DX579 metal prep (mixed with water per the directions) and rinse and dry quickly with compressed air, blue paper shop towels, fans etc. It"s best not to do this when it is very hot and humid out as rust will begin to form quickly. Some flash may just barely start and that"s ok. Just get it sealed in PPG DPLF Epoxy Sealer Primer as quickly as possible. Mix DPLF 2:1:1 (primer: catalyst: DT Reducer). Once your parts are sealed, you"re not rushed for time. Use spreadable filler to fill pits etc. This is the roughout work. Use 80 grit to get it down close to where it needs to be. Air tools can speed up the rough out process as well as careful spreading of the filler so as not to apply more than is needed, and to apply it evenly. You may have to do a second or third round of rough out depending on how it is going. After roughout I like to use a sprayable filler (not filler primer). It"s the same material as spreadable filler only you can control the application better and it can go on thinner. Block that out by hand with 80 and work to 180 grit. If you are not using sprayable filler, you"ll have to get it to the same stage with spreadable filler. Once that"s good, you"re ready for filler primer. Filler primer will fill 180 sanding scratches and other minor things. I use RM DP20 filler primer with catalyst. Best buy is at autobodysupply.net
After you spray a few coats on and it dries, apply a guide fog coat so you can see how yor sanding is going. Block that out with 320 grit. If you are satisfied, seal it again in DPLF sealer primer and paint it. I recommend Acrylic Urethane like PPG DCC. It will not be affected by gasoline and most common chemicals. It will also resist brake fluid for a period of time (not that it"s relavant to the tractor, but I had an accident once). Enamels or Lacquers will not come close in resistance to the various solvents. If you have a sample of your color, you can have it matched by a PPG Dealer in DCC. I had to purchase a quart of enamel that was supposed to be correct for my tractor. The color looked correct so I sprayed out a swatch card for the PPG Dealer to match in DCC. That"s just what you have to do to get the right color in the good paint you want.
I am just at the final painting stage of my 55 Ford tractor which is documented at www.picturetrail.com/brad_bb I plan to update the pics tonight with all the bodyworking, blocking, and paint for my first color.

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Jason(ma)

08-01-2006 05:07:45




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 Re: recommendations for prime and paint in reply to mark from the fort, 07-31-2006 19:14:39  
I was hoping Rod or CNKS would reply so I could just go ditto. Here's is what I would do.

Use paint from a major auto paint company i.e. ppg, dupont, sherman williams, napa ect. Making sure I got the correct shade.

Without supplied air 1. Bondo sheet metal - if needed 2. expoxy primer everything 3. sandable surface primer over sheetmetal 4. Top coat with a arcylic enamal - no harder 5. be very careful with gasoline

with supplied air 1. Bondo sheet metal - if needed 2. epoxy primer everything 3. sandable surface primer over sheetmetal 4. Top coat with single stage urethane - much higher resistance to gas spills 5. color sand out dirt from painting in garage - sheetmetal only. 6. buff sheetmetal

with either method I might use some picklex if I couldn't get the primer on right after chemically stripping but picklex is pricy.

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