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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Paint Selection

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CalJim

08-21-2006 22:28:18




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Hello All,
Just getting ready to buy paint for my current
restoration, a "36 John Deere B. My first was
a "44 B which I rattlecanned. That tractor looks
really good and the paint is holding up well.
Have since purchased a HVLP setup and would like
some opinions on what type of paint to use. Our
local paintstore has DuPont products, I"ve looked
at Centari and Imron. Being a rookie painter I"d
like to use something fairly easy to work with.
I would be satisfied with an enamel unless there
is something better I could use safely without
supplied air. Primer would have to work on blast-ed bare metal, is epoxy or self-etching better?
Is there a primer I can use that can wait until
the next day to be topcoated? Thank you in advance for your thoughts and
opinions- your advice is greatly appreciated. CalJim

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jubilee johnny

08-23-2006 08:13:19




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to CalJim, 08-21-2006 22:28:18  
Pat Browning in his jd h restoration guide states that centari fades rather bad with jd green. I have used centari on automobiles and liked it. What has been others experience?



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Rod (NH)

08-23-2006 15:44:44




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to jubilee johnny, 08-23-2006 08:13:19  
Johnny,

I've used Centari over the years (catalyzed though) and never found it to be a significant "fader". I've never used it in green however. Centari and PPG's Delstar were the premium acrylic enamels in years past. I can still get Centari around here but Delstar is no longer carried by the local jobbers within a hundred miles. There is very little demand for an expensive ss acrylic enamel in today's auto-refinish world. I don't know how much longer Centari can hold on, given the cost of it. Current economics would tend to favor an economy urethane for overalls in my opinion. DuPont actually classifies Centari mixed with the Ultra Performance Pak as an acrylic urethane rather than an acrylic enamel - so the chemical lines get blurred with such a mix. Whether that's hype or not, I don't know. I've used that and like it, but of course it contains isos in the performance pak and needs supplied air for safety. It was used on one of my trucks (blue) about five years ago. No noticeable fading and it's outside all the time. I've never used uncatalyzed Centari so I can't comment on the fade characteristics of that mix. I certainly would expect it to be significantly better than any alkyd enamel in that respect.

Rod

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jubilee johnny

08-24-2006 08:27:38




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to Rod (NH), 08-23-2006 15:44:44  
Thanks for your input. I don't have a dupont dealer within 80 miles of here so I don't use it even though I started out with dupont. I have a napa dealer and get jd green, yellow, and black, from the jd dealer in Ashville, nc (80 miles).



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B-maniac

08-22-2006 17:22:15




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to CalJim, 08-21-2006 22:28:18  
Use epoxy primer,you will have nothing that needs "etched" for adhesion especially if blasted like you said you were going to do . Yes, you can wait overnight to top-coat the primer. Primer/ surfacer will need to be sanded smooth first. Epoxy needs no sanding if topcoated within the "window" of time on the instructions. Go ahead and use Centari without hardner.It will be so much of a step up from what you are used to and won't be that expensive if not buying hardner. It's about as simple as painting gets as far as mixing and spraying goes. TWO WORDS OF ADVISE::::PREPARATION AND CLEANLINESS!!!! Theres no getting around them if you want it to look nice. When you think you have it ready to spray,call someone professional to look at it. They will let you know what will and won't show up in your paint so you can fix it first. When you get ready to spray, test out the gun,spray pattern,viscosity and your spray technique on a test panel BEFORE you do the tractor. THEM "Bs" DESERVE THE BEST!!! Good Luck!

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Jason(ma)

08-22-2006 10:47:34




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to CalJim, 08-21-2006 22:28:18  
please excuse my recycling of my previous post. I suggest you really look at buying the supplied air system if you think your going to do more painting. I just find that the price of centari is so close if not more than better lasting urethanes. Don't get me wrong centari is good paint just for me it was gonna cost more than imron and I like being able to color sand out the crap that gets in my paint jobs. On primers I think either is fine, I'd go with what you jobber/brand recomends.

I was hoping Rod or CNKS would reply so I could just go ditto.
Here's is what I would do.
Use paint from a major auto paint company i.e. ppg, dupont, sherman williams, napa ect. Making sure I got the correct shade.

Without supplied air
1. Bondo sheet metal - if needed
2. expoxy primer everything
3. sandable surface primer over sheetmetal
4. Top coat with a arcylic enamal - no harder
5. be very careful with gasoline

with supplied air
1. Bondo sheet metal - if needed
2. epoxy primer everything
3. sandable surface primer over sheetmetal
4. Top coat with single stage urethane - much higher resistance to gas spills
5. color sand out dirt from painting in garage - sheetmetal only. 6. buff sheetmetal

with either method I might use some picklex if I couldn't get the primer on right after chemically stripping but picklex is pricy.

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CNKS

08-22-2006 17:29:50




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to Jason(ma), 08-22-2006 10:47:34  
Jason, I don't have anything to add -- After sanding, what products are you using to buff it out? -- 3M, Mequiars? I have found PPG MTK rather hard to buff (electric or air powered rotary)-- it eventually gets there, but takes a while. Hardest and most time consuming part of the whole process for me. It scratches easily, particularly when removing the stuff after buffing, have to use very soft towels. Currently using Mequiars products and foam pads, I have not tried wool. 3M makes a bunch of products, apparantly no better than Mequiars.

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jason(ma)

08-22-2006 17:46:35




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to CNKS, 08-22-2006 17:29:50  
I'm using a 3m system, I can get the actual product names tommorow if you want. It's wet sand upto about 1200 grit. 3m product #1 and a wool pad on my dewalt electic buffer running at about 1400 rpm. Then 3m product #2 on a foam pad to take out the swirl marks. I just read through some of my how to paint books and asked my paint jobber what to do. I've only done this on the G so far but it worked out really well for me. I wonder if you should be using a wool pad.

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B-maniac

08-23-2006 19:35:33




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to jason(ma), 08-22-2006 17:46:35  
Wool is the only way to go if you want the "better than sprayed" look. I use 1500 grit,fine ppg white compound(don't have # right now), then 3M machine glaze (with clean wool pad)and let it burn it's way in instead of spreading it out and throwing it all off. Then 3M hand glaze by hand. Another tip;after you go over the last time with compound,clean the pad and spray a dusting of water on the part and buff that out. Small parts you will have to do by hand. My buffer is a B&D Commercial 7.5 amp,2800 rpm.Wouldn't recomend because it requires a lot of experience to not get burns, but that rpm is where you get the perfect shine and no swirl marks.

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CNKS

08-23-2006 20:11:07




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to B-maniac, 08-23-2006 19:35:33  
I might have to go with wool. Instead of the water, I can get it almost there by using a foam pad almost dry -- it generates just enough heat to remove the haze. I say almost because it looks good to me until I put a newly painted unbuffed piece beside it. I can also use my orbital with about the same results, almost impossible to burn through with that. Buffing is a "science" all to itself, I think each person has to do what works for him.

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CNKS

08-22-2006 19:41:47




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 Re: Paint Selection in reply to jason(ma), 08-22-2006 17:46:35  
I'm doing about the same thing. I have been afraid to try wool, though, because of burn through. With foam it is almost impossible to burn through, except on an edge. I probably should order some 3.5 inch wool pads, no local dealer. I have the hood and fenders done, they look ok, but not as good as the unbuffed paint, that is if it didn't have dirt or lint in it. There are a lot of small parts to do. I have a 3.5 inch air buffer I use for that. I think I have the Makita equivalent of your Dewalt large buffer. It's ok on large surfaces, but much too big for my small parts. On the larger parts I have a good orbital (DA) buffer that I use for the final product, after using the rotary to get most of the shine back. You might look up the nembers of your 3M products. I have a couple of them also, but I believe my Mequiar ones are as good or better, I don't think there is much difference between brands of the major companies, but there could be. Anyway, part of my current problem may be that I get the product too hot or too dry or both, then it adheres to the metal, and will not come off easily. I use alcohol to remove the residue and then start over. But getting the slight glaze off is difficult, and I can't quite get it back to the sheen I had before I sanded and buffed. My goal is to eliminate my dirt problem, an only have to sand out the occasional cootie the everyone gets, or else leave it alone, but I'm not there yet, getting closer though.

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