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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Painting proceedure

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TJNAA

08-25-2006 17:16:31

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I"m getting ready to paint my NAA and wanted to get some opinions on my proceedure. My steps so far are to take all parts down to bare metal either by sandblasting the small ones or electrolysis on the large ones. I have then prepped the bare metal with picklex 20. Most of my parts are currently in this state. Next I plan on scuffing the picklex coating with scotchbrite and using Omni MP170 Epoxy primer. I plan on finishing with Omni Acrylic Enamel with the hardener - I know about the ISO concerns. Should I have any concerns about the picklex 20 under the MP170? I see that the MP170 must be scuffed and reapplied if allowed to sit more than 3 days. Is there any recommendation on what grit paper to use for scuffing? I was thinking 220 grit. How long should one wait between topcoats of the Omni Acrylic Enamel before sanding between coats if required? Is it the same as the MP170? Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
TJ

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TJNAA

08-28-2006 17:58:40

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Re: Painting proceedure in reply to TJNAA, 08-25-2006 17:16:31

I spent last evening D/L-ing the spec sheets for the MAE. I see there is the option of using MH202 high gloss hardener. My past experience has taught me that high gloss means greater resistivity to the elements, gas, etc. Am I right in expecting the same here? I suppose the other question is, will high gloss look right on my NAA? I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I sorta want it to look right for the tractor as well. I think I've got the steps right now. For the cast items:

1. Scuff the picklex, prime with MP170, scuff with scotchbrite, and over coat with MAE.

For the sheet metal:
1.Scuff the picklex, and bondo/sand as required
2.Use the MP170/bondo/MP170 until I am satsified
3.Overcoat with MP 182 and scuff previously to
4.Applying MAE
5.Now can I have a beer and admire my work?

Thanks for all your help guys, this forum is the best.
Regards,
TJ

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CNKS

08-28-2006 18:28:29

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Re: Painting proceedure in reply to TJNAA, 08-28-2006 17:58:40

I haven't used the 202, if I was using MAE I probably would. Higher gloss will still fade, it just isn't as noticeable, I think the MAE has the UV inhibitors, not the hardener. I hadn't heard about the increased gas resistance, I won't dispute it. In #1 (cast) or sheet metal, or anything, you don't scuff the 170 unless you are past the 3 day interval. After you scuff you MUST give it another coat. The bond between 170 and the overlying paint has to be chemical, not mechanical, thus the limit of three days. 2. Sort of. You can see blemishes in the bondo through the 170, sometimes that doesn't mean anything. Do as good a job as you can with the Bondo before you put 170 over the top. Apply the 182 and SAND, don't scuff -- I wet sand with 400. Look very closely for imperfections. Correct the defect and apply 170/182 as needed. If you were using MTK acrylic urethane, and you need to apply the 182 again, you could tint it with MTK and see the color difference, sort of like a guide coat. Brings up another thing -- if you have supplied air and are using hardener, use MTK acrylic urethane, not MAE, it is better paint, MAE has no advantage, MTK does not cost that much more. As to the Bondo, keep it below 1/8 inch think, I shoot for 1/16 inch and make it most of the time. At that thickness you don't have to worry about it cracking later on. Also, the Bondo will have pinholes in it. Those can be filled with a one-part putty, this will also fill sanding scratches in the Bondo if you don't sand it too hard. Sand all remaining putty off. 5. Trust me, it will be a LONG time before you get to your beer.

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Brad_bb

08-28-2006 08:19:06

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Re: Painting proceedure in reply to TJNAA, 08-25-2006 17:16:31

Good advice to spray cast parts first. You are less likely to run the paint on those parts becuase of all the pores/grip surface. Just remember that when you switch to spraying smooth sheetmetal, ease back on the amount of material you shoot so you don"t run.

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TJNAA

08-27-2006 14:28:14

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Re: Painting proceedure - more ?'s in reply to TJNAA, 08-25-2006 17:16:31

Thanks CNKS and B-maniac. This will be my first attempt with the epoxy primer and I guess I didn't realize how thin it is. My experience from days gone by is with sealers and lacquer based material. That is where the sanding between topcoats thoughts came from. I will need to do some filling on certain parts and I could use a little advice here. I was thinking of using the MP181 where needed and then follow with the MP170. Can I use bondo between coats of the MP181 or is there a better alternative? Do you have a recommedation on the scotchbrite? I see there are several grades. If I am interpreting things correctly here my proccedure should be amended as follows:

1.Scuff the picklex
2.Wipe down with a grease/wax remover(Naptha OK?)
3.Apply MP181 Primer/Surfacer then fill my imperfections and more bondo/Primer/Surfacer until they are filled.
4.Scuff Primer/Surfacer
5.Apply MP 170 - 2 to 3 coats - no sanding unless beyond the 3 day window.
6.Follow with Omni MAE 2 to 3 coats 7.Drink Beer and admire work

Thanks for all you help.
Regards,
TJ

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B-maniac

08-27-2006 19:15:23

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Re: Painting proceedure - more ?'s in reply to TJNAA, 08-27-2006 14:28:14

Excellent advise and information from all.TJNAA,good luck on your tractor,and feel free to get back on here for more tips while you are in progress. One more thing, start spraying on small, preferably cast parts,until you become more familiar with the process.Sheet metal should be last because they are the largest and the fussiest.By that time you should have it down pretty good.

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CNKS

08-27-2006 18:00:06

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Re: Painting proceedure - more ?'s in reply to TJNAA, 08-27-2006 14:28:14

To add to what Rod said, and repeat part of it. Epoxy is the first thing to go down, after the Picklex and body filler. Rod prefers to use the 170 before the body filler for rust protection, I think, he lives in a humid climate, I don't, thus I really don't have a rust problem. 170 is the foundation for the overlying coats. You will sand the 182. 182 or 181 for that matter, is not really designed to go on bare metal. Not at all unusual to sand clear through the 182 AND the 170 exposing bare metal. If you have appreciable bare spots, you need to apply the 170 again, at least to the bare spots -- don't try the 182 on bare metal, it may not stick. So, hit the bare spots with 170, then add more 182 if needed and sand. If you want to go one step further -- It is nice to have everything the same color when you apply the topcoat, not essential, it's just easier to get good coverage if everything is the same. So -- if you have bare metal showing or even if the 170 shows in spots where you have sanded 182, but not down to bare metal, you can hit the whole thing with 170 again -- only one coat this time. At this stage, since 170 is not the smoothest paint in the world to apply, you can add up to 10% acetone to the RTS (ready to spray) 170, as per the spec sheet, it will flow out better. When used in this way, and the topcoat applied within the 3 day window, the 170 acts as a "sealer", and you have a chemical bond between the 170 and the topcoat, rather than the mechanical one you produce when you topcoat over the 182. The sealer thing never occurred to me before B-maniac provided this info in one of his older posts, he may wish to comment further, if I left out something. If all this sounds confusing, it is, but it becomes second nature after a time.

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Rod (NH)

08-27-2006 16:52:54

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Re: Painting proceedure - more ?'s in reply to TJNAA, 08-27-2006 14:28:14

PS: Here's a good explanation of surface cleaners and their usage.

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Rod (NH)

08-27-2006 16:39:57

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Re: Painting proceedure - more ?'s in reply to TJNAA, 08-27-2006 14:28:14

Hi TJ,

I'll jump in with some comments. Lose the Naptha. Get a proper cleaner like PPG's DX330. Lose the 181. Since you are using hardener in the topcoat and know the safety issues involved, use the 182 urethane surfacer instead. It is far preferable to the 181. The 170 epoxy should go down before the 182 surfacer, right after the Picklex. Apply the 170 in two coats. Do any bondo work either before or after the 170, not after the 182 or in between coats of 182. Use a general purpose (maroon) Scotch-Brite hand pad, 3M #7447 if you need to scuff the 170 past the window and for scuffing the Picklex. Sand the 182 with 220 grit initially and finish up with 400. You don't need the 182 on any cast parts. For those, go directly from 170 to MAE. Do a final wipe down with DX330 and wipe lightly with a tack rag immediately before applying the MAE. Plan on three coats of MAE instead of two. Enjoy the beer and the work.

Rod

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TJNAA

08-27-2006 17:18:06

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Re: Painting proceedure - more ?'s in reply to Rod (NH), 08-27-2006 16:39:57

Thanks Rod for the advice and again thanks to CNKS and B-maniac. With all your help I'm pretty confident in the plan now.

Regards,
TJ

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CNKS

08-25-2006 19:57:13

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Re: Painting proceedure in reply to TJNAA, 08-25-2006 17:16:31

What B says. After you scuff the Picklex, remove the powdery residue with wax and grease remover. I remove all the Picklex I can. Probably not necessary, but I don't like painting over residue of any kind. As B said apply all the MAE at the same time. Wait until it flashes (tacky), usually 10-15 minutes. You should use two coats of 170, waiting 5-10 minutes between coats. I assume you have seen the instruction sheets. If not they are in the link. You don't sand or scuff 170 unless you are outside the 3 day interval.

P-sheets

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B-maniac

08-25-2006 19:26:28

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Re: Painting proceedure in reply to TJNAA, 08-25-2006 17:16:31

Don't know about the picklex question,never use it. The rest of your procedure looks fine. Apparently you have no surface defects to fill because I see nothing about primer/surfacer. The one thing that puzzles me is why you would want to sand the top coat and add more topcoat? Put it all on in succesive coats with the required waiting time between.If you think you will be color sanding/buffing any imperfections later,then put on one more coat at the time you paint it to allow for sanding some off. If for some reason you still think you have to let it cure and sand and apply more coats later,I would let it cure at least a week at 70 or higher and sand with 600 wet. You will never get it perfectly dirt and lint free no matter how many times you spray it.When you see "perfect" paint jobs,they are color sanded and buffed that way, they aren't sprayed that way. The auto factories are the only ones that can afford the conditions and the equipment to get a "near" perfect job. They don't spray liquid product, they spray powder and bake/melt it to shine.Not powder coat but close. Also I would scuff your epoxy with scotchbrite pad instead of sandpaper. That primer is adhering good and has formed a corrosion barrier. The only reason to scuff it is for adhesion of another coat to it,not the metal. Why would you want to scratch through to metal again with 220 paper? The epoxy is so thin that your sand paper WILL scratch through it! Scotchbrite it . Sounds like you have done your homework.Good Luck.

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