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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

primer question

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Greg Lasher

11-04-2006 10:49:17




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I hope I'm not repeating a question that has already been asked but I need an expert opinion. A tractor friend of mine does great paint work (at least it looks good). He uses Rustoleum (SP?) "rusty metal primer" that he gets at Ace Hardware. He thins it with paint thinner and spays it on and then uses expensive John Deere paint on top of it. Everything seems to look good and hold up. He says that automotive primers just aren't as good. Is this a good combination? I know that some of this is what do you like better Chevy or Ford, or JD or IH for that matter but are these paints and primer compatable?

Thanks
Greg

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Rod (NH)

11-04-2006 15:22:02




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 Re: primer question in reply to Greg Lasher, 11-04-2006 10:49:17  
Hi Greg,

I'll chime in and agree with the other two - which is not unusual. Before you buy into the Rustoleum primer/JD alkyd topcoat, consider the following (my opinions only):

1. It may work for him but it is definitely not in accordance with the Rustoleum written instructions, especially if he is putting that rusty metal primer over anything but pure rust. Here's what Rustoleum has to say about it:

Can I use Rusty Metal Primer and Clean Metal Primer on my car? Stops Rust Auto Primer is formulated for use with automotive touch up paints. Rusty Metal and Clean Metal Primers should only be used if top coated with Rust-Oleum paint.

Can I use Rusty Metal Primer on clean metal? No. The fish oil that is in the primer needs to penetrate into rust to seal out air and moisture. If there is no rust, the oil will rise to the surface making adhesion of the finish coat difficult.

And I doubt that it's in accordance with any JD label instructions either.

2. It may look great for a while, but see if you can see one that has been in the sun for a couple of years. That means in the sun on a regular, if not full time, basis. Not garaged and taken out only once or twice a year for shows. Alkyd enamels are notorious faders and haven't been used on cars in many, many years. They are 1930's technology. A primer (no pun intended) on paint chemistry is here.

3. Absent whatever premium cost is associated with the JD label itself, the combination you mentioned is about as cheap as it gets for paint.

4. If he says automotive paints or primers are not good, he simply doesn't know what good is. He should try selling his combo idea to Ford or GM. If he's correct, they could save enough billions to get them out of the hole they are in.

5. I wouldn't use such a combination in general myself because I usually expect better performance than I think that combo provides. I do however, accept the fact that if it doesn't self-destruct because of any incompatibilities (note fish oil and adhesion issue above), it represents an inexpensive alternative for simply protecting the metal. If that's your goal, fine, go for it. Just be aware that there are better, although more expensive, alternatives available.

Neither GM, nor Ford, nor JD nor IH make their own paint. They buy it from paint companies. JD and IH likely get it from a company that deals a lot in private label paints. Valspar is one such paint company. GM and Ford will purchase from a big, well known company that has global reach and the resources to produce the custom color matches and performance they demand on a large scale. PPG and DuPont come to mind in particular and are key suppliers to automotive OEM and refinish industries along with other industrial customers. But it's really the more modern chemistries rather than brand that accounts for better performance (and cost).

PS: don't worry about repeating a question. It's done all the time. Some of us may get tired of it but if we didn't want to respond, we wouldn't bother.

third party image Rod

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CNKS

11-04-2006 12:48:20




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 Re: primer question in reply to Greg Lasher, 11-04-2006 10:49:17  
No such thing as expensive JD paint. It's just overpriced alkyd enamel. I thought rusty metal primer was supposed to be used on rust. If it works, it works. Automotive primers, particularly epoxy, are better. Most epoxies will be compatible with the JD paint. They will also cost more than the JD paint.



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B-maniac

11-04-2006 13:10:58




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 Re: primer question in reply to CNKS, 11-04-2006 12:48:20  
Like CNKS said,if it works for him,it works. He obviously doesn't know what all is out there in automotive primers or has had some bad experiences with them,which in my opinion would be from abuse or misuse as they ARE the best. I also agree , that JD green alkyd enamel is close to the cheapest (low cost) paints you can buy.I won't comment as to it's quallity. The rope marks are barely healed up from the last time.

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Rod (NH)

11-04-2006 15:26:57




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 Re: primer question in reply to B-maniac, 11-04-2006 13:10:58  
B---,

Rope marks? You mean, as a JD enthusiast, you are not mezmerized by the mystical properties of official JD paint? Infidel!

Heh.

Rod



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B-maniac

11-04-2006 18:54:56




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 Re: primer question in reply to Rod (NH), 11-04-2006 15:26:57  
My wife's uncle would use nothing but "Ford" oil in his Fords. Told us it was designed to use that oil only and wouldn't last if he didn't! Couldn't tell him any different. Marketing is a powerful tool. In a country where 80% of the pop. are followers and 20% are leaders marketing makes BIG money. That 80% is what keeps our "false" economy going. I guess my "B" will just be worth a lot less money with PPG on it. My next one ,I am going to try Rustoleum primer,PPG surfacer/Acme hardner , JD Classic Green paint/PPG hardner , Dupont Imron Clear Coat/Western Hardner because my neighbor who works at Home Depo said their fork truck driver uses it all the time. Put the rope away everyone,I'm just joshing around here!

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DurangoCase

11-04-2006 17:14:58




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 Re: primer question in reply to B-maniac, 11-04-2006 18:54:56  
Are you going to brush it or roll it on?



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Rod (NH)

11-04-2006 20:58:32




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 Re: primer question in reply to B-maniac, 11-04-2006 18:54:56  
Boy, those ACME folks really get around don't they? Knew they were into dynamite - didn't know they had hardeners third party image. If you were to start your own custom painting business would you dare call it "ACME Customs" or some such? Seems to be a popular business name but I have to wonder why. I've got an ACME sheet metal fabricating business the next town over and there's an ACME rug and upholstery cleaning business not far away. If you plug "ACME" into a Google search, you get over 20 million hits. Every time I hear or see the name it makes me laugh. All I can think of is Wile Coyote. Too many cartoons as a kid I guess. Beep, beep!

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