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What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel?

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jubilee johnny

12-13-2006 08:41:04




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There is always much discussion about primers and paint systems. For years I have used grey laquer based primer but I would like to update my system if I am using antiquated products. I do use a hardener in the jd paint. What should I do?




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unioncreek

12-14-2006 06:35:03




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to jubilee johnny, 12-13-2006 08:41:04  
I use the paint the my Case/IH dealer carries and it's produced by the same manufacturer as the JD paint, which is Valspar. I primed my Farmall M with Kirker epoxy primer and then primed with Case/IH primer, sanded and then painted. I use my M pretty hard and didn't want to put an expensive paint on it. I gloss has held up pretty good on it, they also have a hardener for it.

Bobg



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jubilee johnny

12-14-2006 04:41:54




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to jubilee johnny, 12-13-2006 08:41:04  
Thanks for all the input. I have some time off tomorrow and the paint man at NAPA is my friend so I will go get some more info.



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Mike (SC)

12-13-2006 15:53:11




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to jubilee johnny, 12-13-2006 08:41:04  
About all I use is Martin Senour products. I have not sprayed any of the JD green colors from them but if I ever paint a JD then I will. Crossfire makes a single stage AU which I use the most and like it pretty well.



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Rod (NH)

12-13-2006 12:27:18




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to jubilee johnny, 12-13-2006 08:41:04  
Johnny,

Well, you are using an antiquated paint with that synthetic enamel topcoat, JD on the label on not. Have you considered using the primer that is recommended on the JD color can label, assuming there is one? That would keep you with a fully compatible system, which is generally the best choice. However, I will go out on a limb and recommend a two-part epoxy since I believe that should be compatible with just about anything. My choice along those lines would be two coats of PPG's OMNI MP170 as the best value for the money. The old PPG DP40, which now is DP40LF (lead free) is a premium epoxy primer and not an etch primer. Nor is it "sandable" in the usual sense. Hang onto your wallet if you want to pursue that option. It doesn't make economic sense to me to go with a premium epoxy and put an old technology synthetic enamel over it but that's up to you. If you have the equipment to safely use hardeners in that JD synthetic enamel, I'd seriously consider moving to a urethane - especially an economy one in the "value" lines like PPG's OMNI or DuPont's NASON. You're probably paying a premium just to have the letters JD on that lable. You might as well put that premium to use in a better quality product.

What is it with the JD label anyway? It seems to have almost a cult following.

third party image Rod

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Derbynut

12-24-2006 19:41:31




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to Rod (NH), 12-13-2006 12:27:18  
John Deere paint is only $35.00 per gallon at my local JD dealer so it's far from a premium price. I've owned and operated my own body shop many years as well as spent time as a body shop manager at a new car dealership so I've seen and tried it all. I find the paint the John Deere store sells to be the best match and BY FAR the best value. You must use a hardener for high gloss and durability. There are many good primer systems out there but I like PPG the best and agree with a previous post that the cost and the quality for most are higher then you need when using synthetic enamel. That is state of the art primer under one of the crudest paints on the market. The Omni line of PPG is a great choise for the budget minded as stated. I too still use grey laquer primer with great success but it will shrink while epoxy types don't as much so you must use it correctly for good results. Your paint and primer are secondary to a good finish, PREPARATION is the key to a good smooth high gloss finish. A slick finish can only be produced over a smooth surface!

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Jubilee johnny

12-13-2006 13:47:26




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to Rod (NH), 12-13-2006 12:27:18  
Access to products is one challenge I have. I live in a small town about 75 miles from Ashville, NC so my local NAPA store is the only automotive paint I can get locally. Does Martin Senour have a system you would be ok with? I admit I am behind on my paint technology as I started painting with Nitrocelulose laquers, but that's why I'm asking questions. Also, can Martin Senour give me a good jd green? As a dentist (my day job) I am on the cutting edge of technology and materials. I can do a smile like the tv extreme makeover program, but my hobby technology needs a boost....Thanks for the input

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Mike M

12-14-2006 06:01:39




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to Jubilee johnny, 12-13-2006 13:47:26  
I have always used antiquated technology on these antiques. I always liked the idea of being able to buy a good product at a cheap price. This has been what JD paint provides along with the convience of being able to buy it in qts.,gallons,
spray cans,and even touch up markers and have it match.You can even get good results with a brush ! Since the removal of lead from paint it never was the same. I think JD paint keep the lead in longer than most because of it's ag uses. Some of this new stuff may be the way to go ? I don't know ? I also see you have a day job that helps you afford the best this hobby has to offer. I can't however get over the image of "MY" tractor working hands in someones mouth ! YUCK !!!!

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Rod (NH)

12-13-2006 15:27:16




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to Jubilee johnny, 12-13-2006 13:47:26  
Yup, the old nitro lacquer was a long time ago, just like synthetic enamel. See here for a crash course in basic paint chemistry/history. There should be nothing wrong with the Martin Senour paints carried by NAPA. My local NAPA has that brand also. I've never used it but would consider it equivalent to similar products from PPG or DuPont. Like those bigger paint suppliers, Martin Senour has "lines" of paint products. I believe their "value" line is called Crossfire. Again, I've never used any but expect it be an equivalent competitor to PPG's OMNI line or DuPont's NASON line. I see at their website that they have all the typical products in Crossfire. Epoxy primer, a urethane surfacer and acrylic enamel and urethane topcoats among them. You can get the detailed technical data sheets for any Martin Senour paint product here. I see they show several different codes for John Deere green. You can see those listed here. As is typical of most tractor manufacturers, apparently JD used more than one shade of green over the years so I have no idea which one you would want or even if you'd be satisfied with any of them. But that is true for any paint manufacturer, including whoever (Valspar?) actually makes the paint you'd get at a JD dealer. You'd have to investigate the actual color shades with someone who is familiar with the green JD used in the year you are interested in. The JD forum at this site would be a place to start. Or maybe one of the JD enthusiasts will jump in here to assist in a decision.

I don't have to be OK with whatever paint you decide to use. I just think there are better options out there than any tractor dealer paint, including that from JD. I mentioned PPG and DuPont as those are the brands I am familiar with. And I mention the automotive "value" lines as I think they represent a good grade of paint products that provide the best value for the money for any overall paint projects undertaken by the DIY. On the other hand, if you are going to keep the tractor shedded (out of the sun) and only used for parades or some such, then the dealer paint (including their recommended primer) should be satisfactory for you. But if you are going to have the tractor outside regularly, i.e. a working one that sees a lot of sun, I think you'd be far better off to investigate a hardened automotive acrylic enamel or urethane. That's especially true if you already have a supplied air respirator for safe use with hardeners. After all, you don't want that nice green to be more blue than green after a year in the sun. Too much work invested in such a project to have that happen.

Rod

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glennster

12-13-2006 11:09:18




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 Re: What primer to use under JD synthetic enamel? in reply to jubilee johnny, 12-13-2006 08:41:04  
over bare metal, use an etching primer, like ppg's dp40 or a filler-etching primer like diamont dp 26 or ppg nzp 270, those two are sandable etching primers. if you break thru sanding, you will need to reprime so all bare metal is covered. if you want you can follow up with a sealing primer, you can use the dp 26 mixed 4 to 1 to 1 with the reducer.



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