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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Interesting Forum Thread

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Rod (NH)

02-03-2007 19:54:19

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Here's a good thread on color matching to automotive OEM paint and the major reason, I think, why the premium lines are so expensive. Also, I believe, why the economy lines are the better choice for tractors, all things considered, than the premium ones - provided cost is a consideration - and it usually is for DIYs doing their own work. At least it's why I would always choose a premium line product for my car unless it was an overall and why I would not bother paying for the premium and choose an economy line product instead for my tractor. The cost difference can be a factor of three hundred percent between the economy and the premium products in the same basic color and chemistry class. While there are other reasons for the higher cost of the premiums, such as higher solids content and better coverage, they are not sufficient to justify that much greater cost as far as I am concerned. For a collision repair shop, sure. But not for a DIY doing his tractor.

Since I have never mixed paint myself, I am not sure on the reference to "one drop" regarding some toners but it sure brings into focus the guy (or gal) in the back room doing the actual mixing and their personal attention to detail and care when making up that batch of paint for you. That includes adequate stirring of the toners used before mixing as well as accurate measuring.

Rod

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CNKS

02-04-2007 13:30:57

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Re: Interesting Forum Thread in reply to Rod (NH), 02-03-2007 19:54:19

If you are mixing a gallon, or even a quart of something, and it calls for 25 grams of some toner, one drop one way or the other probably isn't going to make any difference. I would really prefer that they measure it accurately because If they mess up one toner, chances are they are going to mess up another one. I think when they mix it they look at the running total (someone correct me if that is not the case). That is, if there are 5 toners, a-25, b-50,c-30,d-75, and e-10 grams, the running totals are 25,75,105,180,and 190. If they miss the first one and only put in 23 grams for toner a, then add the next to 75 grams, they have put in 52 grams of toner b, etc. Some of the luck I have had, the mixer may have done that. However, IMO, the main problem is whether or not they keep the toners mixed. That is where I think most mistakes have been made where I buy paint, because the differences I have had with only one color, IH red 71310, the actual weight would have to contain a gross error to get the differences I have seen for that number (there are no alternates) -- but I can't prove anything. Since on tractors you are usually painting the whole thing, the absolute exact color probably is not that important. The paint guy at the place I buy it at assures me that the gallon of PPG Omni I buy today will be the same as that I buy next year. (I have my own formula that I give to him). But, I'm not so sure --- .

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Farmallgray

02-04-2007 09:20:49

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Re: Interesting Forum Thread in reply to Rod (NH), 02-03-2007 19:54:19

I agree. I'm the paint expert (hate to use that word) at the NAPA store where I work. Our store pretty much only sells paint to DIYs and fleets anymore. For some reason none of the shops in our area like M-S. For several years we have only been mixing the Crossfire line. I have used it for several of my projects and have been very happy with it. I was told by someone at MS that the reason these economy lines are cheaper is because there isn't as much of an investment-fewer toners, etc. Matching isn't as big an issue with the solid colors we usually have on tractors either.

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DurangoCase

02-04-2007 07:24:28

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Re: Interesting Forum Thread in reply to Rod (NH), 02-03-2007 19:54:19

Good thread. I can help with the "one drop" reference. Paint formulas are given in weight to the tenth of a gram. One drop of toner can weigh a tenth of a gram. When mixing quarts and pints, being off by one drop can be very noticeable.

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B-maniac

02-04-2007 08:32:00

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Re: Interesting Forum Thread in reply to DurangoCase, 02-04-2007 07:24:28

AAAA-MENNNN!!! to that thread. I have dealt with this through-out my body shop career. In 1986-87 , PPG came out with the Deltron system of base/clear and at the same time the variance or alternate decks (chips) I was devoted Dupont up til then. Dupont factory rep. told me face to face they only mix/have one formula and thats that. Switched to PPG and have never looked back. At Chrysler dealership I managed , there were about 4 colors (metallic/pearls) that would match panel/panel perfectly. The rest ALL had to be blended to be perfect. When I say "perfect" I mean in any light/sun/vapor lites. Many times we had to match brand new cars with off the truck dammage that were put up front to be sold as new. There were no "scratch and dent" sales on car lots. Trust me , you couldn't tell when done. Many independent shops never mastered this art because lack of training and the fact that they never repaired that new of cars. Some shop managers just told the customer "thats the best we can do" "the store mixed the paint' and thought they got away with it just cause the cust. paid and left. Most of those are out of bussiness by now. I agree with Rod for the most part. In my world , I have found there are a few other advantages to going "hi-line' than just color match. Some I have eluded to in previous posts. One big reason is that I have perfected the system and any idiosyncricies it (and all) may have had. Bottom line is , if you have a system that you have mastered and you are COMPLETELY satisfied with it every time , then that is what to stay with. Every-ones requirements for satisfaction are different. Mine just may be high enough to be called obcessive. Fussy customers with $30,000 wrecked cars that want/expect them to look BETTER than new when done just may have had something to do with that. Glad you posted that referance , Rod , for it may clear up ,for some people that I have tee,d off with my advise, just where I come from (and will probably stay). It's really something though , back before internet , everything you see in that thread and a lot more,were called "trade secrets" and not shared very freely. Now anyone with enough interest can have everything we "old timers" have secretly profited from all these years. Wish I had this when I was starting out! Have a great day. "B"

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