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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Use of PPG Delstar DAR color over MP170 Epoxy Prim

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Stephen R. Hort

02-28-2007 09:07:56




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Do any of you good gentlemen (and women) know if I can shoot PPG Delstar DAR color (Polyurethane Acrylic Enable) over the MP170 Epoxy Primer from the PPG Omni line? Since these are in 2 different PPG systems, can't find any documentation.
thanks, Stephen




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Stephen R. Horton (TX)

02-28-2007 20:02:10




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 Re: Use of PPG Delstar DAR color over MP170 Epoxy in reply to Stephen R. Horton (TX), 02-28-2007 09:07:56  
Hi guys,
Thanks for the replies. I so very much value the exchange of knowledge that I get from this forum. I've got a quart of Delstar that I had bought earlier before using Omni, but I'll likely shelve it for an implement repaint project later. I was considering using it for part of my upcoming tractor repaint. I really like the experiences I've had with MTK / Omni products, so I'll stick with that for the important stuff. I was able to download the tech sheets from PPG's web page; thanks for the links.
thanks, stephen

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Rod (NH)

02-28-2007 11:29:47




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 Re: Use of PPG Delstar DAR color over MP170 Epoxy in reply to Stephen R. Horton (TX), 02-28-2007 09:07:56  
Hi Stephen,

Normally you wouldn't want to cross-mix manufacturer's product or quality lines. However, there can be some limited exceptions.

I use the MP170 regularly after I abandoned the PPG premium DPLF as being unnecessarily expensive. It's simply a more economical choice (and just as good IMO) for an epoxy primer, providing a PPG Delstar warranty is not being pursued. While I have not used Delstar over it, I have used DuPont's Centari - the Delstar primary competitor - over it with great success. I've also used the MP successfully under PPG's premium Deltron "Concept" acrylic urethane instead of the normally recommended DPLF. I like Delstar also and have used a lot in years past but it is no longer available in my area. I am quite confident that you would not have a problem with Delstar over OMNI MP. I certainly would do it if I were still using Delstar. Just don't use premium line ingredients in an economy line field mix. Or vice-versa. For example, don't use a DPLF catalyst in the OMNI MP. Use the proper OMNI MP catalyst.

If you don't have the tech sheets, I can link you to them if you wish. There will be no indication that PPG gives any endorsement of cross-line mixing of products though. They just don't do that. It's not in their interest to do it. You need the tech sheets however for basic usage instructions, so let me know if you don't have them.

third party image Rod

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Stephen R. Horton (TX)

02-28-2007 14:08:58




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 Re: Use of PPG Delstar DAR color over MP170 Epoxy in reply to Rod (NH), 02-28-2007 11:29:47  
Hi Rod,
In your experience, does the Delstar have advantages over OmniMTK with regards to being able to repair defects. I think I remember reading here that Delstar can be primed and then painted over easier if it gets damaged later on. Is that true?
thanks, Stephen



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Rod (NH)

02-28-2007 15:55:52




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 Re: Use of PPG Delstar DAR color over MP170 Epoxy in reply to Stephen R. Horton (TX), 02-28-2007 14:08:58  
Stephen,

I don't think there is any specific advantage to the Delstar over the MTK except I don't think it is as hard and may be less likely to chip. It is more expensive than the MTK acrylic urethane - too expensive in my opinion compared with the economy line competitors available. That's why no jobber in my area stocks the mixing tints for it anymore. As an acrylic enamel, it can't compete economically with the economy line OMNI products - either their MAE acrylic enamel or their MTK acrylic urethane. Or with simlar lines from others such as DuPont's NASON. I remain surprised that DuPont's Centari is still around since it is comparable in price to the Delstar. The base/clear urethanes have taken over the auto refinish market and the demand for an expensive acrylic enamel, even a hardened one, is not very high. Both Centari and Delstar are excellent acrylic enamels though. You are unlikely to find any better or easier to spray ones. They both have a long and outstanding history but their days are numbered. They both represent older chemistry and are currently overpriced, in my opinion.

The MTK is readily repairable. I've re-shot it the following day with no problems. You may be thinking about OMNI MAE. Unlike MTK, the use of a hardener is optional in MAE. PPG does not recommend any attempt at recoating MAE unless a hardener is used. I have never tried it so I would have to say that anyone using MAE w/o hardener should not count on any easy repair effort. That's the reason I have stopped recommending OMNI MAE w/o hardener for those that don't have a supplied-air respirator and instead recommend DuPont's NASON Fast-Dry or, if one wants to pay the price, DuPont's Centari in a non-hardened field mix. Those are both claimed to be repairable after a certain dry time, even without using a hardener. I have never tried it, but that's what the manufacturer claims. I haven't used any DAR/DXR80 in about 15 years and can't remember specifically any repair experience. I certainly would expect it to be easily repairable, just like the MTK, provided you use the DXR80 hardener additive.

Here are the tech sheets for Omni MP Epoxy and Delstar Acrylic Enamel

Rod

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ORS

02-28-2007 13:44:06




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 Re: Use of PPG Delstar DAR color over MP170 Epoxy in reply to Rod (NH), 02-28-2007 11:29:47  
Rods words definitely hold water. I would tend to agree. On many occasions I have managed to use Omni paints over PPG primers and PPG paints over Omni Primers. My PPG rep told me that you can cut DP50LF with Omni's MR186, I have done it many times with no problems. DONT intertwine PPG products with lets say another companies product, like Dupont.That is what I like about PPG products, they make it simple.
Again as Rod said DONT intermingle the catalyst or you will have problems. Rod said he had the link for the PPG tech sheets. I have the tech sheets but by the time I dig them out scan the and put them out here we would have a book. It would be best if he just put it out here for you. They should give you all the answers you need.

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glennster

02-28-2007 10:19:22




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 Re: Use of PPG Delstar DAR color over MP170 Epoxy in reply to Stephen R. Horton (TX), 02-28-2007 09:07:56  
i'd be a little nervous doing that. why not stay with the omni line? most paint systems are designed from the bottom up, you dont want to cross over lines or manufactures, crazy problems can develop.



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