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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Wow!! Thanks for the info!

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Bruce(OR)

04-20-2007 02:13:38




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Holy Smokes!!
Please allow me to summarize this and please, please feel free to correct me in my foolish ignorance.
All paint chips! Garoonteed! Look at the wife's van doors at the grocery store.
I just don't want to look at it sideways and have it chip off too easy.
Supplied air system? You talking about my cheapo single stage underpowered, overworked Sears compressor with the 20 gallon tank? (Probably not...)
Yes, I will probably pick up a smaller off brand hobby gun from NAPA. And a cheap gravity feed 20 OZ. one on sale from Harbor Freight. ($12.99).
I don't have a scba, I are official back yarder in a tent at best. Is that ugly or what??
Hobby air? Whoa! that's $4/500 bucks this credit card ain't got.
Looks like Isocynates is out of the question which about kills the Hardener. So, that might takes me into acrylic enamel. Here is the paint quote I got from the local paint supplier...

PPG DDC/QT CONCEPT 34690 $68.55
PPG DCX61/HPT CATALYST $29.50
PPG DT870/QT URETHANE RED.-ME $16.15
PPG DP50LF/QT VOC Epoxy Primer $41.60
PPG DP402LF/PT EPOXY PRIMER CAT $24.00 ----- $179.80
Single stage urethane.

If I knew what I was doing, a QT of paint might be enough. $180 for paint is what got my attention. Real fast.

Check out the fleet colors? All manufacturers have them? Wha?
I am also about to spray the tractor parts down with OSPRO. This in fact is a base of phosphoric acid which seals the metal from rusting. It is my desire to reduce rust from coming back through the paint anytime soon.

Gentlemen, I thank you for your patience and great assistance in bringing me to enlightment and diminishing the great amount of my ignorance. It is my desire not to have to do this job again anytime soon especially with the labor involved with the total disassembly of the machine down to only the trans and diff still being bolted together. The expense of both time and money spent in cleaning each piece and the wife's great allowance of parts storage in the house on newspaper to keep them clean.

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B-maniac

04-21-2007 12:53:16




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 Re: Wow!! Thanks for the info! in reply to Bruce(OR), 04-20-2007 02:13:38  
If you don't want to do it again , the pre=paint prep is the key. I agree with CNKS on this. Get rid of the rust completely and then use someones epoxy primer immediatly. Converted rust is still an unwanted contaminant on the metal and shouldn't be primed or painted over in you want a long lasting job. As far as paint quallity , the lower price you go the quicker it will fade and dull down. You won't have to do it all over because of this. Depending on how offensive it is , you can always buff it back to shine on the sheetmetal parts and the fade probably won't be that offensive on the cast parts. The only reason you may have to ever do it over is if you cut corners on the foundation!The cheap paint won't stay lookin' like a show tractor , if that's what you are after , but it won't fall off either. List your requirements then make the call. As far as isocyanates and respirators etc , you will hear tons of info about it and still not know what to do. I ask you to do one thing more before you decide. Go and talk to at least 10 professional painters at high end dealership body shops to get some real life answers and experiences from the people who paint with iso's every day for a living. That , along with everything you have read or heard should give you enough info to make the best decision for you. Good luck.

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CNKS

04-20-2007 13:43:16




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 Re: Wow!! Thanks for the info! in reply to Bruce(OR), 04-20-2007 02:13:38  
Supplied air is another name for a Hobby air, SCBA or anything that supplies fesh air from an outside source, either from a tank or a blower or turbine outside the painting area. It is not an air purifier like a cartridge mask. Be careful with ospho or anything claiming to "seal" off rust on cast iron (It doesn't seal it, it converts it to iron oxide) It gets in the pores and may show up later, although I have not seen that happen, yet. Also, when you use it keep the parts indoors, it is not waterproof. The best way to prevent rust problems is to remove it mechanically. Find out the air requirement of your gun. Some of them use a lot of air, perhaps more than your air compressor can furnish.

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Bruce(OR)

04-20-2007 08:15:30




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 Re: Wow!! Thanks for the info! in reply to Bruce(OR), 04-20-2007 02:13:38  
Is it possible to use a mask with filter cartridges around isocynates?
That should be cheaper than $4/500...
Have a good one!
Bruce(OR)



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Rod (NH)

04-20-2007 20:21:36




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 Re: Wow!! Thanks for the info! in reply to Bruce(OR), 04-20-2007 08:15:30  
Hi Bruce,

Anything is possible. Even no respirator at all. But it's generally not recommended.

I'll add another "IF" to CNKS's post. I know of no cartridge respirator manufacturer who recommends their product for use with isocyanates where the airborne concentration is unknown. That's usually the case in all DIY work. For example, 3M does recommend one of their organic vapor cartridges (when also used with a particulate prefilter) for isocyanates - but only up to an airborne concentration of 0.05 ppm, regardless of how fresh the cartridge is. Of course all other aspects, such as those CNKS indicates, must also be met. That means no facial hair for one thing and required fit testing. If the concentration is not known, then 3M recommends supplied-air, period. The National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) recommends supplied-air for all exposure to isocyanates, no matter the concentration level. The fine print from either PPG or DuPont also leads to supplied-air, as does a wealth of other authoritative sources, some of which are legally binding in their jurisdiction. For DIYs though, it is a personal safety decision. They should make an informed one. The risk is theirs to take. Some seem to ignore the warnings and have apparently been able to get away with it. Others have not. I'm a typical backyard DIY and I went to supplied-air many years ago because of a bad experience with isocyanates in acrylic enamel hardener. I do not recommend a cartridge type of respirator when painting with materials containing isocyanates - even when done outside. I don't do it myself and I don't recommend it to others. The cost of the equipment is not great at all if you put any significant value on your own respiratory health.

You might want to investigate DuPont's NASON Fast-Dry acrylic enamel in addition to the PPG OMNI acrylic enamel mentioned. That should be comparably priced and can be used w/o a hardener additive. I have not used it myself. Either of those will be a lot lower in cost than the PPG DCC you were quoted. You might also look into the industrial/commercial lines of either DuPont or PPG. There are opportunities there for good, economical choices, depending on local availability and color selection. Look for either acrylic enamel or acrylic modified alkyd enamel. Other than that, you are pretty much left with the old chemistry alkyd enamels sold in tractor supply stores, hardware stores and home centers.

third party image Rod

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CNKS

04-20-2007 13:33:05




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 Re: Wow!! Thanks for the info! in reply to Bruce(OR), 04-20-2007 08:15:30  
The short answer is no. The long answer is yes IF the cartridges are brand new and if your mask fits perfectly, which it won't -- you will be drawing fumes in around the edges. Even if it did, since iso's themselves have no odor, you will not know when you are breathing them, and the filter life is short. PPG Omni acylic enamel without hardener can probably be had for about $80/gallon. Omni acrylic urethane, which must have hardener is about $130 with the hardener. Dupont prices are similar.

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Jason(ma)

04-20-2007 04:30:57




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 Re: Wow!! Thanks for the info! in reply to Bruce(OR), 04-20-2007 02:13:38  
ppg's concept paint that you were quoted is a high end paint that contains ISO's. Take a look at an AE without the hardener. Like something in PPg's OMNI line, should be something like $100/gal or so. I haven't priced it out in a while.



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