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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

How long to fully cure and harden ??

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john_bud

05-22-2007 05:03:34




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Hi,


My question is how long until the paint is fully hard? I can still indent it with a thumb nail pretty easily. I used Dupont's Corlar 2.1 PR primer and Imron 3.5 HG on some backhoe parts. (They were suggested by Frank S. and the spec's look good.)

It's been 12 days since the first coat of primer, 11 days since the 2nd and 10 days since the color coat. The days have been about 1/2 75F and over with the others being under 75 for the high. We did have one day that was almost 100F, then the next day was 64 for a high. After 3 days of drying, the parts were brought outside to dry more hanging from a chain between trees. [IMG]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/john_bud/723%20backhoe/partshanging.jpg[/IMG]

third party image

Any ideas on when the paint will be fully hard, cured, dry and the parts able to be assembled?

jb

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Frank Stalfire

05-22-2007 21:31:18




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to john_bud, 05-22-2007 05:03:34  
Cure is dependent on film build, heat, airflow, and humidity, i"ve walked thru dealer lots and put finger nail marks in black cars with OEM finishes, you have a good amount of film build in the undercoat and a topcoat with no accelerator that is black, so it will seem soft regardless of the brand you have used. with proper temps and enviroment a full cure takes 3 months so after 10 days and with the up and down temps you've seen plus the other factors mentioned above i'm not surprised. Don't let the nail test worry you, you can probably but a nail mark in most coatings regardless of the time they have cured, just take your time assembling and recognize black will get hotter then any other color and a fully cured black will most likely be soft enough to put a nail mark in. what you should not be able to do is leave a finger print, if you can do that then there is another issue, don't sweat a nail mark

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Derbynut

05-22-2007 06:23:29




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to john_bud, 05-22-2007 05:03:34  
I have been in the body shop bussiness for about 25 years but have not used Imron for several years (never cared for it) so I too am a little uncertain but soemthing is definately wrong! Cars I painted with Imron were assymbled and returned to service the next day. I"m not a fan of any Dupont products but any system using an activator (hardner) should be cured to a safe handling point in a few hours, certainly the next day. PPG systems can be wet sanded an hour after spraying and buffed the next day. My suggestion would be to read both your paint and primer spec sheets and see if you may have missed a product or used incorrect mixing ratios? You can contact your paint rep for answers too. I"m leaning toward the primer not being cured rather than a paint issue. I wonder how heavy your primer coats were? Good luck on this one.

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B-maniac

05-22-2007 17:01:04




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to Derbynut, 05-22-2007 06:23:29  
I am hoping Frank S will chime in on this one. If this is "normal" then I"m glad I don"t use Dupont. I don"t believe it is normal. It has been warm enough that it should be pretty well cured by that amount of days.



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glennster

05-22-2007 05:38:43




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to john_bud, 05-22-2007 05:03:34  
been a long time since i shot imron, did you use both the activator and the accelerator in the imron? if the accelerator wasnt used, you are probably looking around 20-30 days to harden it up. get it out in the sun as much as you can and that will speed the hardening .



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john_bud

05-22-2007 11:42:12




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to glennster, 05-22-2007 05:38:43  
Both primer and primer activator were used in 1:1 ratio. Two fairly thick coats probably in the 7-8 mil dry range.

Color coat was also in color and activator 3:1 ratio.


The data sheets are saying 7 days at 70F. I guess it's not been that warm....

jb



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Derbynut

05-22-2007 19:42:51




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to john_bud, 05-22-2007 11:42:12  
Well it sounds like you did what dupont asked you to do. If you do bring those parts back inside to dry I suggest putting fans on them. Moving air does very well at helping chemicals evaporate from the paint, sometimes better then heat. Opinions very widely on this too but at the risk of starting another big fuss I might suggest next time just a simple acrylic enamal with a hardner and acrylic enamal reducer. That should give you a durable, high gloss finish dry to touch in a few hours and much cheaper.

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glennster

05-22-2007 18:40:46




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to john_bud, 05-22-2007 11:42:12  
you're about 10 days out from application, and looks like the parts were in an unheated building, your temps were 70degrees day, maybe 50 or so at nite, so looks like you are about on course, imron stays gummy until it is fully cured which usually takes 7-10 days in a heated shop. that is the reason dupont came out with the accelerator to speed drying for production shops. imron is nasty stuff chemically, it is no longer sold here in illinois.

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john_bud

05-22-2007 20:19:30




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to glennster, 05-22-2007 18:40:46  
Glenster,

I think you are right. Parts were in unheated building that gets morning shade and afternoon shade. Stays pretty cool in there even around noon time. Oh, it wasn't 50 at night, more like 40's and a couple nights even down to the high 30's. brrrr. I'm seriously hoping for some warmth!

I sprayed color coat (3.5 HG) on other parts today. Tack coat around 10am and full coat around 3pm. At 8pm it was still tacky in the thick areas. Thin coated parts that were by the doors and got some sun were dry to the touch, but not "dry". Temps were pretty steady at 80F from 10am till 6pm. And windy as a bear.

Temps are falling and it will probably be 70 for the high tomorrow and 60's for the next 1/2 week or more.

By the way, I bought both the corlar primer and the imron from a place in Illinois. It may be your area doesn't stock it? I use a full external supplied air hood when painting. It's a spendy deal, but much cheaper than getting all cobbled up from fumes!

jb

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glennster

05-23-2007 05:41:54




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to john_bud, 05-22-2007 20:19:30  
john, i own a body shop up in yorkville il, epa and osha wont let us use imron anymore, we also have to use hvlp guns. they monitor voc emissions too. the next biggie is water born paints, california is in the changeover process now. probably in the next year or so we will have to switch over too. our downdraft booth will need to be converted, adding dehumidifiers and modified air handlers. hate to see the bill on that stuff. from what i read on waterborn, its not baked like current paint lines. so i will be sitting where with a 1.5 million btu heat stack that will idle. maybe i'll move the stack down to the farm, i can heat the barn to 180 degrees then, keep those tractors toasty warm in the winter!!!!

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john_bud

05-23-2007 21:08:48




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 Re: How long to fully cure and harden ?? in reply to glennster, 05-23-2007 05:41:54  
glennster,

Sounds like change is comming. I only hope that the water based paints are better than the sh--t used on my '89 ford that flaked off like snow!

What happens with bare metal using water based paints? Does it rust up under the paint?? Just feels wrong, know what I mean>?

If you want to bake my parts with that mondo-jumbo heater - feel free! The sun isn't getting the job done.

I was hoping that the paint would harden up quick - the 2 part paints I used in the past did. Painting in a barn with dirt floor, even one covered with a tarp still has a lot of dirt flying around. Having the paint be sticky tacky for 4-8 hrs isn't giving a show room finish. Especially when it starts to blow with gusts up to 30 mph after you start to spray. Oh well, hopefully it will be chip and scratch resistant as advertized. I'll live with the gunk in the paint then. Heck, it will be covered with dirt most of the time anyway.

jb

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