TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

First time for bc/cc

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

bigharry

05-27-2007 12:15:34

Report to Moderator

I have painted with single stage acrylic urethane a few times but now I want to try a base coat clear coat system.
I have a supplied air system so I am covered as far as isos. What I need to know is the procedure any different with base clear than single stage.
MY body work is done, no bondo just body hammers and heat and cold. I plan to use ppg products out of the omni line.
First I will use 170 primer and prime everything. My base is a omni AU Brand base. My paint man told me that the pro line from ppg is just as good as omni. He gave me a topcoat catalyst, does it get mixed in the base or the clear. I assume the clear? I will be painting inside out of the wind and sun but the temp will be about 80 with about 65% humidity. I have fast drying reducer what should the base be mixed and the clear? Thanks for all of the answers it is easier to ask now then after I mess it up. thanks

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

B-maniac

05-30-2007 19:17:18

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to bigharry, 05-27-2007 12:15:34

Well I see Rod and CNKS have went off in a "computer" direction. I have used PPG BC/CC since it's birth around 1986 or so. Will try and guide you some. Only PPG brand base has a "reactive reducer" for use in the base coat. Has slight amounts of catylist in it mainly to stabilize the flake in metalics so it won't mottle when hit with wet clear. Otherwise , no you don't use catylist in base! It will gel up in minutes. I will not try to comment on your body prep. That's a matter of personal priorities and has nothing to do with your original question of how base coat differs from single stage in application. Like the others said , get the tech sheets for ratios of mix and temp ranges. Avoid trying to "dump" the base on to get it to flow out and shine. It is NOT formulated to shine! All you are to be concerned with is getting it completely covered with minimal dry spray. You do NOT sand the base before you clear. If you get dirt nibs you can knock them off with 600 and hit it with another coat just where you sanded and then clear after the required wait time. The clear you will apply in wet coats like single stage. Please try this on a test panel FIRST!! Use what you learn on your test to do your tractor. If you have any more "specific" questions feel free to post them. Before you "purchase" a clear you may want to come back on here with your choices and specifics on your conditions and we can guide you away from the ones not suited to your situation. There are a lot of clears and they all are condition specific to a certain extent. Don't choose by price. Choose by which one fits your need.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

ORS

05-28-2007 05:17:18

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to bigharry, 05-27-2007 12:15:34

Omni and Shopline are two of the same. The base just gets cut with reducer. I dont have access to Omni just shopline (phased out) If it is Omni reducer the # should be MR126 if it is shopline it should be JR506 both are medium reducers. As for the clearcoat the activater get mixed here. If you are painting the tractor with the sheet metal on (not panel painting the tin) you can add a small amount of slow reducer to the clear as this will slow the flash time down. Thus eliminating the chance for dry spots, but with this it increases your chance for runs.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-28-2007 06:29:52

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to ORS, 05-28-2007 05:17:18

Omni medium reducer is MR 186, slow 187, fast 185, don't remember if there is a 4th one.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

ORS

05-29-2007 14:38:45

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to CNKS, 05-28-2007 06:29:52

Sorry about the part # error been over a year since we had Omni products here. So many different paint types and companies just cant remember them all anymore. Sorry again and thanks for the correction

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-29-2007 19:22:21

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to ORS, 05-29-2007 14:38:45

No need for an apology, I only did that to prevent someone from asking for the wrong number at some paint dealer.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Rod (NH)

05-27-2007 13:38:52

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to bigharry, 05-27-2007 12:15:34

Hi,

I'm not sure what you mean by "AU Brand" base. There are two basecoats in the OMNI line - an MBC and an MBP. Is it one of those? "Pro" line? Is that the Value-Pro products or something else? With due respect to your paint man, he has not given you the complete information you need. And I would be very careful about mixing products from different lines, if that is what your paint man has sold you. You should definitely get the manufacturer's detailed Product Data sheets for each of the products that you have. Some basecoats can utilize a catalyst but many do not. I don't believe the two OMNI ones do - but you need the appropriate data sheets to be sure. In my opinion, a "fast" reducer is too fast for temps around 80 degrees. I would want to use a medium-to-slow reducer for that. Again, you need the data sheets for the available reducers and mix ratios. There is much more usage information on the data sheets than is found on typical can labels. Clears generally use a catalyst and are not normally reduced, but it's unclear which clear or which catalyst you have. The data sheets for all PPG products are available from their website. Get the ones for your products. That way you will be sure of having the correct information and the best chance of success.

Rod

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-27-2007 13:36:23

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to bigharry, 05-27-2007 12:15:34

Rather than try to explain a system that I have never used (I have used only Omni single stage) go to www.PPG.com and look for their P-sheets -- follow the instructions to the letter. There is no need to experiment. I don't have the specific link because I had a hard drive crash a while back. I think the Pro line and Omni are identical, just different names for sales purposes. Make sure the paint guy gave you the hardeners listed on the P-sheets -- some paint sales people are not very knowledgeable -- always use PPG's instructions over what they say.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-27-2007 14:17:59

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to CNKS, 05-27-2007 13:36:23

Here is the link -- I'm retracting my statement about the Pro-line, as I am not sure. PPG has changed a few things lately that I'm not familiar with. Be sure you use the products recommended over and under the base coat. AND, unless you are an absolute expert on bodywork--I am definitely not-- you need to use at least a skim coat of bodyfiller. Your paint will highlight every minor defect. Nothing at all wrong with body filler. I try to keep mine at 1/16 inch, no more than 1/8. It will last forever.

Omni

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Rod (NH)

05-27-2007 13:43:52

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to CNKS, 05-27-2007 13:36:23

Oops. I was typing when you were posting. If I had seen yours first, I wouldn't have replied.

Rod

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-27-2007 14:21:58

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to Rod (NH), 05-27-2007 13:43:52

Not a problem. You give better answers than me anyway. I went to the PPG web site, and found their P-sheet listing but nothing clickable. The info above is from another site. I can't seem to connect to the old TriCity site that we have both used in the past.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Rod (NH)

05-27-2007 15:30:58

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to CNKS, 05-27-2007 14:21:58

I gave up on the Tri-City site quite a while ago when I found out they had old info and were not prompt in keeping it up-to-date. Some of the data sheets they linked to had been superceded by new ones from PPG. And not recently either. I notice the site you just linked to has the same problem - the sheet for the MP-170 primer is way outdated (it's from 2000 and the latest is from 2005). It does not indicate the more recent induction period now recommended by PPG for the 170. Direct from the PPG site is the best way to get the sheets. Not sure what you mean by "nothing clickable". The list I linked to above had clickable links in it for each of the sheets. Apparently you didn't get to the same list?

PPG has too many automotive lines covering similar but slightly different products. A high end and a low end line should be sufficient. Multiple lines in the same cost category such as OMNI, Shop-Line, Value-Pro make it too confusing with different products peddled by different PPG jobbers and having unknown, questionable interchangeability. I personally think PPG's introduction of the Shop-Line to appease some high volume jobbers is a scam. Everything I have heard suggests it's essentially identical to OMNI, only with a different label. The Value-Pro line seems to be of European origin brought under the PPG corporate umbrella.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-27-2007 18:27:37

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to Rod (NH), 05-27-2007 15:30:58

This is the list I am referring to. I am unable to find the listing of all their products where I could call up each P-sheet. Since I know the numbers of the ones I use, I can get to them with the search function. But, if you have that list, I would appreciate you posting it, and I will bookmark it. Lost it when my hard disk died -- and of course I never back anything up! Thanks.

Omni

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Rod (NH)

05-27-2007 19:31:59

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to CNKS, 05-27-2007 18:27:37

I see. This is the list I am referring to. You need to know the product ID (e.g. MP170) but it's easy to link to and has them all. You can get to the appropriate sheet by also going in through PPG's main page, selecting the desired paint line and clicking on "submit". That will get you a list of sheets (with clickable links) just for that line. I find it easier to go direct to the entire list and pick out the sheets I want. You can also direct-link to a specific sheet by right-clicking and saving the shortcut to the clipboard. You then have to edit the shortcut to eliminate the java script data at the beginning and end of it in order to go directly to the pdf file. That's easier to do than it sounds. I doubt PPG appreciates it though. I have not found a way to link directly to a list of sheets (with clickable links) that apply to just one paint line.

For doing your backups automatically, you should consider installing a slave internal disk and using syncronization software (there is an excellent freeware one) to do the backup of files and folders you select. The process can be scheduled via windows scheduler and be run as often as you like in the background, completely transparent to you. Also by using disk imaging software on a regular basis, you can create a compressed file that will enable you to restore your entire system to a new, blank hard disk exactly like it was before, with your operating system, applications, custom settings, etc. all intact. The perfect solution for a complete hard disk failure.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-28-2007 06:27:18

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to Rod (NH), 05-27-2007 19:31:59

Thanks, that is the list I could not find. It is in a slightly different format, perhaps that is why I couldn't locate it. PPG's site is somewhat difficult to navigate. Everything is there but not always in the logical (in my dense mind) place it should be. I will save the hard disk info, and try to figure it out sometime before the next crash, any second now.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Rod (NH)

05-28-2007 09:29:24

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to CNKS, 05-28-2007 06:27:18

You're not alone. I think the PPG site is terrible to navigate. Finding the appropriate data sheet is hard enough but finding the corrrect MSDS in essentially impossible, at least for me. It used to be that a work-around for getting the MSDS (for OMNI anyway) was to use the links at Tri-City. But those no longer work at all and even if they did, I wouldn't trust them as being up-to-date. PPG has failed miserably in this respect. I cannot understand why they don't make the safety information easily available. The DuPont site is far ahead of 'em, with navigation being simple for both data sheets and MSDS. The Martin Senour (NAPA) site is similarly easy to navigate for both data and safety sheets. PPG could learn something from their competitors regarding website development.

If anyone knows how to find on-line MSDS sheets for PPG automotive paint products, please share your "how-to" information.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-28-2007 17:35:43

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to Rod (NH), 05-28-2007 09:29:24

This doesn't always work, but it seems to work now. I did it for MAE and MP 170. Select English and type MP170 with no space between the P and 1 and see if it works.

MP170

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Rod (NH)

05-28-2007 19:35:10

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to CNKS, 05-28-2007 17:35:43

Well, the MP170 works like you said! I put it in the "code" box. I am surprised. The MAE was a problem however. I got another window that had 27 different MAE links, none of which worked. They would start to try and load a graphic but that quickly turned to the dreaded red X - meaning bad link. There were four MAE links that were defined as MAE-1, MAE-2, MAE-3 and MAE-4. There were others with a bunch of numbers after the MAE and others that appeared to be factory packaged colors. Anyway, going back to the first screen and putting MAE-1 in the "code" block with English selected, I did wind up getting a working link to the pdf file MSDS. I have no idea what the difference is between the various MAE dash numbers or what all the other ones are about. The color may make a difference in the MSDS. I never thought it did, but it may. A similar deal happens when trying DPLF and DCC.

I went back and reconfigured Adobe Reader to open directly in a browser window and that solved the non-working links noted above. I don't know if I want to keep the configuration that way since I have always preferred to have an internet pdf link open a new Reader window and not have the Reader open inside a browser window. I don't have a problem anywhere else, including the PPG data sheet pdfs, so it appears to be something to do with how just the MSDS links are implemented at PPG. I also note that Reader 8 has opening within a browser as the default configuration. Maybe that's why I was having a problem at PPG and you are not - I had changed from the default some time back.

Anyway, thanks. At least now I can find some of them if I jump through the right hoops.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

CNKS

05-28-2007 19:55:27

Report to Moderator

Re: First time for bc/cc in reply to Rod (NH), 05-28-2007 19:35:10

I stumbled across this before I found the MSDS's, I think it explains the 1,2,3,4 but don't know about the other numbers.

MAE 1,2,3,4

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy