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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Which Type of Paint to Use?

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CalJim

08-27-2007 21:21:15




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I just finished painting my second tractor, and have four more to go. These are all John Deere B's of varying styles. I take them completely apart, everything gets bead blasted, primed and painted separately before they are reassembled. I did the first one with SEM Self-Etching Primer and John Deere Classic...All with rattle cans. Turned out well, no runs, orangepeel, etc. and the gloss is probably real close to the original factory finish. Second tractor was done with Imron 2.8. Used a Turbine Painting System, followed all mixing and application instructions for primer and paint, looks beautiful and it's darn near bulletproof. Probably way more gloss than original factory finish but so what.
So here is my problem...The instructions say the topcoat should be applied within 1/2 hour of primer application. That is the window of time for chemical adhesion to occur, anything after that needs to be scuffed for mechanical adhesion. It is just about impossible for me to work within that 1/2 hour window when I've got tables full of large and small parts, bolts, nuts, etc. cleaned, tacked and ready for paint. By the time I prime, clean the gun and mix paint it is too late. I have way too many parts to start scuffing. Are there any high quality paint/primer systems with more flexible time windows? I really like the Imron, do I really need to follow the time frames closely? Most of the parts are cast, does that help with adhesion compared to sheetmetal? CalJim

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Johnsdeere

10-18-2007 16:47:05




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 Re: Which Type of Paint to Use? in reply to CalJim, 08-27-2007 21:21:15  
Dupont has other options for a primer with a longer window, talk to the store you got it from. I Use E350 epoxy in Utech and it has a 7 day recoat time after drying. Here is their site Link



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PhilC

09-01-2007 16:16:06




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 Re: Which Type of Paint to Use? in reply to CalJim, 08-27-2007 21:21:15  
Need to know what specific primer product you're using to answer your questions. I've not used Imron, but like all paint systems, the mfr has tech sheets that tell you what you need to know. As Rod and CNKS have said, most epoxy primers give you a generous recoat window, even etch primers give you several hours.third party image

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CNKS

08-28-2007 18:17:28




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 Re: Which Type of Paint to Use? in reply to CalJim, 08-27-2007 21:21:15  
I agree with Rod. But, the only "primers" I know of that have that short a window are really non-sanding sealers that are applied immediately before topcoating. You do not need a sealer on bare metal, only on painted surfaces where the old finish might react with the new; but DuPont sometimes recommends a sealer over certain primers, also. Although I have not used DuPont products, they do have paint lines that do not use a sealer. Also on the numerous small cast parts, all you need is a DuPont epoxy primer that is compatible with your topcoat, nothing else. Epoxy is generally non sanding, and you can prepare a series of parts, use epoxy and then easily topcoat within the window--you can also do that with a sealer, if you insist on using your current procedure. As Rod says the epoxy window is usually not less than 3 days. You do not need etch primer on sand/bead blasted parts, the blasting does the etching.

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SDE

08-31-2007 15:35:05




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 Re: Which Type of Paint to Use? in reply to CNKS, 08-28-2007 18:17:28  
Where does a person go to get the information that will indicate which primer will be compatiable with which topcat?
Store clerk? (abrasive person)
Will it be on the label?
on-line data sheet?
Thanks Steve



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CNKS

08-31-2007 17:01:05




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 Re: Which Type of Paint to Use? in reply to SDE, 08-31-2007 15:35:05  
Quality paints, PPG, DuPont, etc have online data sheets that give specific insructions and tell you which primers are recommended with which topcoat. Very specific mixing and use info is given for each product. The link is PPG's version. Some clerks are very knowledgeable, most aren't.

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Rod (NH)

08-28-2007 17:14:56




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 Re: Which Type of Paint to Use? in reply to CalJim, 08-27-2007 21:21:15  
What primer are you using? Usually it's the primer that specifies a window and not the topcoat. Are you sure you are looking at a max window for topcoating w/o scuffing or a minimum primer dry time before topcoating? The epoxies I am familiar with have maximum windows between 24 hrs and 7 days, depending on manufacturer and exact product. Typical minimums would be 30 minutes or more. Half an hour sounds too short to be reasonable for a maximum widow. I understand the problems that tractor people have when dealing with application windows and painting a multitude of individual parts - it's far different than painting a car. The best I've been able to do is try and schedule the prep work such that I'll be able to prime right away and topcoat within the window - 3 days for the epoxy primer I'm now using. In other words, don't get too far ahead in part prep. For the sheetmetal work, if you're using an epoxy with a window and are going to use a surfacer, get the surfacer on within the window and then you can delay the topcoat as needed since you'll be sanding the surfacer anyway. For the castings with no surfacer, just schedule your work so you can keep within the window. Also try and choose products that have longer windows if there is a choice and it's feasible. Most primers where no window or specific instruction is given should be topcoated within 24 hours ( assuming the primer is dry) to avoid a scuffing for the best adhesion - but that's just my own opinion where there is little to no guidance from the primer manufacturer.

Yes, I believe you should follow the manufacturer's time frames closely. They are there to obtain the best performance from the product(s). But be careful that you're interpreting them correctly. Personally I don't think there is much difference whether it's cast or sheetmetal as far as any time window goes. At least I treat both the same in that regard.

third party image Rod

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