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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated

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mskoch

11-28-2007 00:03:24




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Recently, I've been approached to paint an airplane. Now, I've been around awhile and primarily have used PPG DBC urethane. I was recommended to this individual that has been building a 235 mph low wing, pressured cabin plane over the last few years. Aluminum, pop rivets everywhere, some glass panels, piece by piece, and graphics. I was reluctant to post this but I know there are some pretty sharp guys out there that may have some experience with this. Keep in mind that perfection is the only objective. An end result with great adhesion qualities, durable gloss and long term luster. I need the whole package from prep to buffing. Thanks in advance and I hope everyone has a great holiday season and please pray for our troops.

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MarkB_MI

12-01-2007 03:45:15




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 Re: Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated in reply to mskoch, 11-28-2007 00:03:24  
What kind of plane is it? The only pressurized experimental aircraft I'm aware of is the Lancair 4P, which is composite, not aluminum. It also costs around a quarter million to build, which would mean he can afford to pay someone to paint it.

Your friend no doubt is impressed by your previous work and also would like to save a few thousand bucks by having you do the work. How about leaving the prep work to him? That's going to be the hardest part of the job and requires techniques you won't be familiar with.

By the way, those are probably driven rivets rather than pop rivets. And if they're flush they can be filled with lightweight filler and made invisible. Most builders only bother doing this on the upper leading edge of the wing, where it's most obvious and has the biggest affect on performance.

Also, he'll probably want a two-tone paint scheme; if you haven't tried this before you might want to practice first. Bleed-through can be prevented by spraying a base coat over the masking tape prior to applying the second color.

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Sidekick

11-28-2007 18:50:33




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 Re: Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated in reply to mskoch, 11-28-2007 00:03:24  
I don"t know what your experience is but you may want to think about steering clear of this job. I painted aircraft in the Air Force for almost 5 years and I can tell you that the difficulty level for the job that you are describing is high. Unless you have prior experience with this kind of stuff you will want to find out all you can about aluminum and magnesium pretreatment and the handling and disposal of the chemicals required. Not to mention the health aspects. Fresh air supply respirator is an absolute must for the whole job. There is way more to it than I could possibly write in this post. Honestly and I mean no disrespect when I say this but if you have to ask then you are probably getting in a little over your head. There is a very good reason why even small aircraft paint jobs can cost $10,000. Trust me, professional a/c painting is not for the average joe. I"d be happy to answer specific questions if you"d like but you can learn a lot from this link.

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mskoch

11-28-2007 19:12:54




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 Re: Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated in reply to Sidekick, 11-28-2007 18:50:33  
Thanks for the info. The link has some great information. My concerns mainly regard the proper prep of new aluminum. I am not removing or covering any pop rivets. Your article discussed polyurethane topcoat. Is this the best solution? I've been in the automotive arena for 11 plus years but want to research this before committing to diving in over my head. Thanks for the honesty in all the replys. I'll keep you guys updated.

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Dick L

11-29-2007 10:06:17




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 Other Info in reply to mskoch, 11-28-2007 19:12:54  
When I painted the Cardinal 177 the airframe certified mechanic at the airport helped sand and wash down ahead of painting and signed and recorded the paint in the plane log. I was told at that time I could not just paint it on my own.



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Sidekick

11-28-2007 19:52:45




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 Re: Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated in reply to mskoch, 11-28-2007 19:12:54  
Definitly polyurethane. We used Aliphatic Polyurethane. A two component resin and catalyst system with an epoxy polamide primer. Also two component. We used a lot of stuff from this company.



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GeneMO

11-28-2007 18:13:39




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 Re: Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated in reply to mskoch, 11-28-2007 00:03:24  
When you talk about countersinking rivits, is this practice something that is allowed? I know a little about planes, enough to know that you cannot be fixated on appearences and finish, but have to remember strength. Anything that affects the structual integrety of the airframe is covered by FAA rules and regs.

If that plane crashes 5 years after you painted it. An attorney will look at the maintence records and they will claim it was your "faulty" paint job that caused the accident. They will own your house and all that you have. Are you insured to do paint for hire on aircraft? Well you had better be. Sorry to rain on the parade.

Gene (Insurance claims supervisor)

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Dick L

11-28-2007 09:23:15




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 Re: Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated in reply to mskoch, 11-28-2007 00:03:24  
I painted a Cessna 177 back in the early 1970's After talking paint so several at the airport I was advised to buy the paint from Cessna. The airport owner was a Cessna dealer and ordered the paint for me. It turned out good.



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Dan Adkins

11-28-2007 07:09:11




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 Re: Entering unknown territory..advice appreciated in reply to mskoch, 11-28-2007 00:03:24  
Hey, read your comments about the plane. Like you, I've used PPG and DBC for years and have done about everything from motorcycles to dune buggys, restored old cars and trucks, old farm tractors,even Semis and fiberglass strand work. I been in the body work business for about 30 years, although retired now as a trucker, I still have a body shop that I do work in on the side when I get bored. I dont understand exactly what your looking for outta this, but I have some ideas that will probably solve your problem as to what your wanting. Theres a few techniques that you can hide rivets, although time consuming, countersink your rivets approx. 1/16 then cover them with long and strong. You can get a good hard base acrylic primer that takes a hardner and reducer, let it set for about 2 hrs. before sanding after shooting it on,then sand it with 180 grit and shoot it again. Repeat this several times, long hard job but great results, fills and levels great. Just be sure to use a paint paddle with the paper to level it, get a hard base coat paint like emeron, mix it 2 parts color, to 1 part reducer, to 1 cap hardner, that is like steel, the drying time before putting your clear on is a lttle different, you just have to judge that according to your temperature where your painting and to the touch and feel of drying. If the luster finish is what your wanting then that takes a little time also. You need to give it a 2 to 3 coats of clear then let it set for about a week, that makes sure the catylyists are set, take 400 grit, yeah thats right, 400, wet sand it real good, that will always sand the dirt out as you go for the next coat, then shoot it again 2 or 3 more coats of clear and let it set again. You wont see any scratches or marks at all so dont worry. Depending on how deep you want the finish to look, repeat this step as needed. When thats all done and your ready to buff it, wet sand it with 1500 grit real good, dont gob the compound on your pad. Use just enough to get the job done. Make sure you got plenty of clean pads and switch them every 15 minutes or so. This will eliminate some of your swirl marks. After compounding it, do the same with the glaze in the same way and dont gob the pad. Just enough to get it shineing real good. Now if your not going to use stick on decals and you want to paint them on and you want them covered with clear, do that before you put your first coat of clear on if you want, or you can also do it after the first coat dries but let that paint dry good, use a scotch pad only on your decals before clearing over them. This will eliminate feeling the decal lines or stick ons coming off. Well, thats about all the ideas I got and I dont think there will ever be a problem with any paint lifting. Like I said, I've been doing this for years and luckily and honestly, knock on wood, I've never had the first one come back on me for paint failure or clear lifting. Hope this may have been some help to you and to all, HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! Send me an e-mail if you want and let me know how it turns out or if you think this will work. If you dont thik its what you need, let me know and we can figure out something else. Dan Adkins

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