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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Peeling Paint

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RD TX

04-12-2008 18:24:00




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I just purchased a Case 1540 and the paint is peeling away from the primer. I did see this and adjusted my price but now it is time fix the problem. Can anyone tell me the mistake the previous owner made to cause the paint not to stick to the primer? I am a beginner but a very fast learner. Could someone give me some advice on what grit sandpaper to start with as well as a finishing grit?

Thanks for your help as I am a beginner. (For now)

Thanks again,

RD

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B-maniac

04-13-2008 14:30:10




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to RD TX, 04-12-2008 18:24:00  
Chemically incompatible products , wrong sanding grit , topcoated too long after re-coat window time limit. Another thing it might be and I've seen this first hand in the ole' cheap Earl Shiebe days. Many people used to use synthetic enamel and heat it up on a hot plate with the paint can sitting in a dish of water until the paint thinned itself from heat to a sprayable consistancy and required no reducer. The paint jobs came out beautiful but you had the issue of humid air trapped and condensed between the hot paint and the colder substrate you are spraying. I have personally seen paint comming off in sheets on cars done this way. All it takes is one chip or scratch to get it started. I have also seen some hold up a long time. I believe it all depends on the humidity when painted. The "economy" part is that you don't need reducer and you can put it all on in one coat without runs because the thermal shock sets the paint up real quickly. Don't ask me how I know all this.

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CNKS

04-13-2008 09:02:27




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to RD TX, 04-12-2008 18:24:00  
First of all use primer and paint from the SAME company to make sure they are compatible. Strip the tractor to bare metal, either by sanding or chemically stripping. If chemically stripped the metal still needs to be sanded. Use the grade of sandpaper recommended by the manufacturer. PPG Omni MP 170 says no finer than 180, although I have used 220 (once) with no problems. 170 must have other paint applied within 72 hrs or it has to be scuffed and reapplied. Do not try to sand 170 before topcoating or applying surfacer over it. If you want a smooth surface, follow that with a 2K sandable surfacer such as PPG Omni MP 182 (hardener requires supplied air breathing system). It is applied 2 or 3 times, sanding with 400 between coats. Use 400 for the final sanding before topcoating, also. If you don't want to use hardener, MP 181 will work, but can shrink into sanding scratches. The topcoat can be 2K Omni acrylic urethane, if no supplied air use Omni acrylic enamel. These are "relatively" expensive paints, easy to spend $300 on this combination. You can spend $600 or more for the Concept line. DuPont, Martin Senour, NAPA, etc have equivalent paints, merely stating what I use. Get the P sheets off the internet and follow the instructions EXACTLY, no matter what you use. As to the surfacer, it is only needed on the sheet metal, if you want the smooth finish. Cast and other parts are rough, surfacer is neither needed or desired.Stay away from the alkyd enamel sold by farm stores unless you can keep it inside. Even there, I strongly recommend better paint.

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Trailer Trash Tractors

04-13-2008 06:30:06




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to RD TX, 04-12-2008 18:24:00  
Is the * Factory * paint failing, leaving bare metal ? Or am I under the opinion that the factory paint is still good, and the repaint is falling off factory paint ?

If the re-paint is failing, leaving factory paint intact, the factory paint was not scuffed up, cleaned up, prior to priming. Primer dampened with oil vapor does this, so does wet sanded primer that was painted while still slightly damp.

My advice ... Go to an Auto Body Supply Store, and buy a Gallon of Automotive Finish remover,
much more powerful than hardware store paint stripper. Follow Safety Precautions ! Start by applying a heavy coat to tight areas where a sander won't go. Glop it on, don't brush it out, follow directions on can as to when, and how to remove. Once the ' tights' are done, flat panels are best attacked with a sander, and 120 / 180 grit paper. I don't agree with poster who suggested using 320 grit on bare metal, that's too fine ! Slicks up steel like chrome [ try painting chrome ! ] Red Oxide primer is best choice for rusty metal, allow to cure aprox 1 week, that overcoat with Gray primer for a show quality refinish, skip Gray primer for a ' working girl ' finish. I don't paint for beauty, but rather to protect metal from rust damage.

Gray primer has Clay which fills pores and voids well, and sands to a perfect finish, red primer has Iron Oxide, instead of clay, the Iron Oxide ' calms ' rust, and doesn't sand out as nicely.

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CNKS

04-13-2008 08:41:03




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to Trailer Trash Tractors, 04-13-2008 06:30:06  
Epoxy primer is best for rust prevention. Apply to bare metal sandblasted or sanded with 180 grit. Far superior to the "oxide" primers, epoxy is virtually waterproof, the others aren't. However, virtually any primer, immediately topcoated will do a decent job against rust. Epoxy is better. The key is to get rid of all residual rust under the old paint.



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glennster

04-13-2008 06:38:04




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to Trailer Trash Tractors, 04-13-2008 06:30:06  
i think you mis understood what i meant. if you sand thru the paint and are going to leave the primer on that was there, work up to the 320 to finish off the original primer before sealing. i didn't mean to finish sand the bare metal with 320. sorry if there was any confusion.



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glennster

04-12-2008 18:39:31




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to RD TX, 04-12-2008 18:24:00  
whithout knowing what was done and the products used, its a tough call. i'd venture to guess either the paint was not compatible with the primer, or the color coat was applied either too soon or too late, depending on the primer. in an ideal world, you should take it down to bare metal and start over. if that is not an option, you will need to sand all the paint off and get into the primer, then either apply a sealer or an epoxy primer and go from there. try some 180 on a da and see how it goes. if the paper clogs up quick, drop to 120 to bust it up, then 180 and finish with 320 before applying your epoxy primer or sealer. the downside to the latter, is if the primer is some type of indusrial coating or oil base, you may still have the same problems and have wasted a lot of time and material.

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glennster

04-12-2008 18:39:24




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to RD TX, 04-12-2008 18:24:00  
whithout knowing what was done and the products used, its a tough call. i'd venture to guess either the paint was not compatible with the primer, or the color coat was applied either too soon or too late, depending on the primer. in an ideal world, you should take it down to bare metal and start over. if that is not an option, you will need to sand all the paint off and get into the primer, then either apply a sealer or an epoxy primer and go from there. try some 180 on a da and see how it goes. if the paper clogs up quick, drop to 120 to bust it up, then 180 and finish with 320 before applying your epoxy primer or sealer. the downside to the latter, is if the primer is some type of indusrial coating or oil base, you may still have the same problems and have wasted a lot of time and material.

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RD TX

04-13-2008 05:11:45




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to glennster, 04-12-2008 18:39:24  
Glennster,

Thanks for the advice. I am off to the store for some sandpaper. Is there a quick way to tell what kind of primer is there. Somehthing like preparing a small area and shooting it then wait a couple of days for it to dry then sanding it off to see if it peels?

Sorry for the long sentance

Thanks,

RD



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glennster

04-13-2008 06:42:27




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 Re: Peeling Paint in reply to RD TX, 04-13-2008 05:11:45  
best advice is to take a piece of the tractor that has the primer to an automotive paint store and see if they can identify it. if thats not possible, at the very least, try various reducers/thinners on a rag and wipe the primer. see if it dissolves. that may help you figure out what was on there.



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