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Primer advice

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bill b va

11-11-2001 13:30:30




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it would be greatly appreciated if you knowledegable painting experts would give us painting dummies the benifit of you experince with primers and priming of metal before painting . is there different kinds of primers for the different paints. what to use with what . i bought some spray cans of sandable primer that says fast dry lacquer, multi- purpose, adhers to bare metal by plastti-kote . what is a sandable primer and non sandable primer ?..... bill b va

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Jerry B

11-12-2001 09:31:33




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 Re: primer advice in reply to bill b va, 11-11-2001 13:30:30  
There have been many developments the area of primers in the last several years. Laquer primers were the standard for many years and was/is used under laquer and enamel paints. Laquer primers have fallen victim to the EPA because the VOC content and the thinner used with them. Enamel primers can into being and had a very short (thankfuly) life.

Multi-stage Primers (multi part) are now in use because of the problems with laquer primers and the newer paints. The paints in use now do not work well with laquer primers. In fact DuPonts' Chroma Base paints will actually lift laquer primers and products. The newer primers are basicaly imprevious to the common solivents and thinners (reducers).

The multi-stage primers come in various price ranges and designed for various applications. Duponts' URO Prime costs about $177 per gallon. Their second line, called Nason, is almost as good but only costs about $80 per gallon. Others have prices about the same range.

Some primers require a certain amount of reducer (converter) other have a range of amounts you could use to cover various applications. All will require a certain amount of activator in order to start the chemical curing process. Too little and the primer will take hours or days to dry. Too much and the primer will set up in the cup before it is all used. All will require a mixing stick to get the proportions correct.

Epoxy primers dry very fast. Laquer had to be sprayed on "dry" in order for it to dry resonably quickly and to prevent shinkage. Multi stage primers dry in a matter of minutes and do not shrink (much) as they dry.

They do have one draw back but after some experience you will learn how to overcome this. The problem is that they have a very short pot life. Left to set in a cup at shop temperatures, they will harden up and then set in a matter of an hour or so. Placing the gun in the fridge will extend the pot life to 2-3 hours. Do not take the gun out of the fridge and open it however, as this will let warm air into the cup and cause condensation in the cup. Not good. Just spray what you need and return the gun to the fridge. If you do not need very much primer at the time then by all means do not mix more than you need.


DO NOT LET THE PRIMER SET UP IN THE GUN. Should that happen you might just as well throw the gun away. I have tried to clean guns after this has happened but it never sprayed right after that.

In days gone by, metal had to be etched with a seperate solution in order to give a surface that primer could stick to. Now we use a "self etching primer" to give a metal the necasary surface with which to work. Bare metal is spray with these self etching primers first, allowed to dry the required time, then sprayed with the primer-fillers.

By the way..... ..

A gravity fed gun is the best way to go with these high dollar primers. Less waste, lower air pressures mean less over-spray and you can mix the primer thicker for faster coverage. Doesn't have to be a high dollar gun. My primer gun came from Harbour Freight and only cost about $40. Works well and should something happen I haven't lost $300 for a professional grade gun. Save the bucks to buy the top coat gun(s).

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Dale E.

11-28-2001 11:19:33




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 Re: Re: primer advice in reply to Jerry B, 11-12-2001 09:31:33  
Jerry, Thanks for the wealth of info! I also am going to try to do a much better job of painting in the future (use to be glad to get one of these old tractors to run, did all the work and painted with spray cans.Won't make that mistake again!!!). You mentioned a gravity feed spray gun. Will this type spray at any angle? (thinking about painting under the tractor). Also will you comment on how to handle the problem of logistics in carring the painting out. By this I mean that I can only clean up and prepare a few pieces per week.My shop is closed but the humidity in south Mississippi is high. If I leave fresh sand blasted parts laying around they rust quick. Do I go ahead and use the self-etching primer right after blasting and then put as much of the tractor back together and then in a few months clean and reprime and paint? How do you recommend a parttime tractor person handle this. Can't quit work yet.Got a couple more I want to send to college! Would appreciate your advice. Dale E.

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Jerry B

12-05-2001 07:13:57




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 Re: Re: Re: primer advice in reply to Dale E., 11-28-2001 11:19:33  
By all means go ahead and spray primer on the parts as soon as you can. I would have the self-etching primer mixed and waiting for the parts as they came out of the blasting booth. Dust the metal off with a high pressure air hose to remove the dust and debris.

I have used a stiff paint brush to help loosen the particles as I blew the air over the surface. I don't particularly like to use shop towels on blasted metal because the sharp edges pull the fibers from the rag and they stick to the bare metal and are hard to remove.

Spray a light coat of self-etching primer, wait about 10-20 minutes and spray another light coat.

If you happen to have the epoxy primers on hand let the self etching primer set a couple of hours (maybe longer in high humidity) and then LIGHTLY scratch the primer with a 3m scratch pad to very slightly texture the surface and let the remaining solvents out. Let it set a little longer (30-45 minutes) and spray your epoxy primer using 2 light coats. This will protect your metal until you can return to it and continue work.

Gravity fed guns will spray in any position.

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LarryG

11-30-2001 04:36:30




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 Re: Re: Re: primer advice in reply to Dale E., 11-28-2001 11:19:33  
Dale, I'm restoring a tractor the same way you are - a few pieces at a time. To keep the bare metal from rusting until I get paint on them I am using Rass-O'- Nil. It's a clear liquid - comes in a spray bottle - spray it on, brush it around. As long as you keep the part out of the rain, it will convert any remaining rust and keep the metal from rusting again. There are other products out there, but I've used this and it works.

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Charles Norwood

11-11-2001 18:42:40




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 Re: primer advice in reply to bill b va, 11-11-2001 13:30:30  
Others may have more detailed advice, but-- Don't use a laquer primer with enamel paint and vice versa. It is usually best to use primers and finish coats from the same manufactuer. The sandable and non sandable primers mean just that. A sandable primer, in particular a primer surfacer, can actually be used to fill small (note that I said small) imperfections and can be sanded smooth.



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