Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Isocyanates Questions???

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Trevor

09-15-2003 12:03:57




Report to Moderator

OK ROD(NH)/CNKS,

I thought I understood the whole ISO thing but then I read a post below and you guys started talking about eyes.

I thought that the danger with iso is that some people are or become sensitive to them in their lungs and it can create symtoms similar to that of Asthma. And once started the reaction can be so great that the person could actually sufficate (similar to Asthma again).

What does it have to do with eyes?

I know you guys have posted MSDS sheets here before maybe if I reread one it will be clear.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Trevor

09-16-2003 05:32:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Isocyanates Questions??? in reply to Trevor, 09-15-2003 12:03:57  
Thanks allot guys. This is exactly the type of discussion I wanted.

The reason I said what I did about the "just 1 tractor" thing is because I don't think I am the only one that had that thought, like Rod said.

I am not just thinking of me here. My father has already painted 2 tractors using hardened paint and my cousin does it a lot and neither of them have a supplied air set up. I wanted some good info to take back to them and hopefully convince them that the safety procautions are necessary.

I do appreciate you guys sharing your real experiences as it is worth way more than some MSDS that is produced by the company that could just be covering their butt.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

09-15-2003 17:39:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Isocyanates Questions??? in reply to Trevor, 09-15-2003 12:03:57  
I will take the resonsibility for starting this eye stuff, but I read it on the label. The reason I paid attention to it, and pay attention to protecting my lungs, is that I know certain chemicals can be harmful. I am a retired agronomist that has used herbicides for weed control for over 30 years, still use them on my own property, just not as often. Never used to wear a mask, didn't mind getting the stuff on me, did not wear gloves to avoid contact with the herbicide, etc, etc. I now have allergies (granted, they are not fatal, yet, like repeated exposure to isos can be), and certain herbicides, notably alachlor (Lasso) and the very common, old, been around 60+ years, 2,4-D, causes double bags under my eyes, watery eyes, etc, for several days after use, even when I wear a mask. I also smell the 2,4-D for hours afterward, even after taking a shower, meaning the stuff is still in my lungs. I told myself that if I can become sensitized to something as common as everyday herbicides, I am darn sure not going to mess around with isos, as they have the potential to cause severe problems. I don't know if isos will affect my eyes or not, but the label says to use eye protection, so I do. The stuff is also absorbed thru the skin, so I wear a long sleeved shirt.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rod (NH)

09-15-2003 16:04:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Isocyanates Questions??? in reply to Trevor, 09-15-2003 12:03:57  
Hi Trevor,

No one is going to jump on you here. This is not like some of those "pro forums". You question is understandable and I am sure it is also shared by many who read but never post here.

Rusty is entirely correct. First hand experience can't be beat. I would add to his excellent post that you don't have to be a pro painter working daily with the stuff to be affected. Different people have different tolerance levels for it. My own experience with isos was about 25 years ago. I painted just two cars (outside I might add) using a standard chemical cartridge respirator. I was using hardened acrylic enamel. Somewhere between two and four hours after the first car was completed I developed an acute hacking cough. That evening and through out the night I could only take relatively shallow breaths without coughing. That cough persisted for a couple of days. The second car was about a year later and the exact same thing occurred. I then began to pay attention to the "real fine print" on the hardener can label. As I recall, back then the recommendation was not as strong as you see nowadays. I think it said something to the effect that a standard respirator was recommended but for the best protection, a supplied air respirator can be used. I decided then that if I was going to continue using these materials I would get a supplied air system. I did just that and I have never had a problem since.

Perhaps it's because of my prior experience with isocyanates that I feel you should do eveything you can to reduce or eliminate your exposure to them. I do my mixing outside and the only time I actually use the material without the fresh air mask is in a small paper cup, outside with an artist's brush touching up bolt heads and nuts.

The eye protection is important also, although I have not had any problem with eyes. But then I use a full facemask where my eyes are already protected. Skin protection is advisable too. If you have ever seen any ads showing a pro painter in a booth spraying a car in recent years you likely will notice a complete tyvek "shoot suit", in addition to a helmet or hood plus rubber gloves. A "space suit" if you will. Automobile refinishing is done with iso-containing materials probably 90% of the time now (if not more). The increased emphasis on health has led (rightfully I think) to such precautions. I don't use a tyvek suit, although I probably should. I do wear long sleeves and use nitrile disposable gloves.

A good, short and to the point, discussion of isocyanate health effects and safety is here. Another good one is here.

Can you do "just a little bit" and get away with it? Maybe. It is unlikely to kill ya. I do not recommend it though. There are certainly some who pooh-pooh the safety precautions recommended when working with isos. Maybe they have lungs of steel; or maybe they are some of the lucky ones who are simply not adversely affected at all. In any event, the preponderence of the evidence over the past couple of decades indicates otherwise. Read as much as you can about the subject and make your own personal decision. Only you can make such a judgment call concerning risks to your own good health.

Here's a section from the MSDS for one of the hardeners used with PPG OMNI MTK acrylic urethane:

EYE PROTECTION: Wear chemical-type splash goggles or full face shield when possibility exists for eye contact due to splashing or spraying liquid, airborne particles, or vapors.

SKIN PROTECTION: Wear protective clothing sufficient to cover exposed skin surfaces. For applications where skin contact is likely and impermeable clothing is necessary, select clothing constructed of: neoprene rubber. No specific permeation/degradation testing have been done on protective clothing for this product. Recommendations for skin protection are based on infrequent contact with this product. For frequent contact or total immersion, contact a manufacturer of protective clothing for appropriate chemical impervious equipment.

RESPIRATORY PROTECTION: Where vapors or overspray are present, use a NIOSH approved, positive-pressure, air- supplied respirator for the entire time of spraying and until all vapors and mists are gone. Follow the respirator manufacturer's directions for respirator use.

Didn't mean for this to be so long; got carried away :o).

third party image Rod

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rusty Jones/ The Mower Ma

09-15-2003 12:29:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Isocyanates Questions??? in reply to Trevor, 09-15-2003 12:03:57  
The info you were given about ISO's in the paint is very true! I know first-hand about this. I painted cars for 30 years when the paint didn't have that stuff in it, and never had any problems. I always used a paint mask, and washed up good afterwards! THEN!! Along comes the ISO filled paints! By that time, i worked in a dealer's shop, who couldn't understand why i needed an air-supply mask. by the time i finally made my own, and stuck him for a diaphragm air compressor, the ISO's had done their dirty work! Didn't bother my eyes, but it sure made me allergic to a lot of things. And, now, if i go into a paint shop where they have just sprayed a wee bit of that paint, I can't get my breath, and i have an asthma attack like you wouldn't believe! Even being in the area, outside, gets me going! So believe what you hear about that stuff--Its bad for your lungs! buy the correct things they call for, get an outside air supply, an air supply mask, coveralls (paper for painting) good goggles for your eyes, or a full head covering mask. (Trouble with the mask is, you can't see very good with it on your head, and if you don't use it, your eyes will go bad!) A TIP: Get everything ready, then take it to a professional paint shop, or (Horrors) paint it with a brush, or spraycan! I've gotten really good with spray cans. Also, those sponge brushes do a great job for painting! And ya don't have to clean them! And no ISO's!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Trevor

09-15-2003 12:44:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Isocyanates Questions??? in reply to Rusty Jones/ The Mower Ma, 09-15-2003 12:29:57  
What hurts your eyes? is it the isos or is it just the overspray landing in you eyes?

Thanks for the first hand account. It is what I wanted to hear.

But to be the devil's advocate. What would be the harm if I was only going to paint 1 tractor? Couldn't I get away with doing it outdoors and working up wind?

Don't jump all over me here, I am just fully exploring the issue and I am sure there are guys asking that very question.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rusty Jones

09-15-2003 15:33:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Isocyanates Questions??? in reply to Trevor, 09-15-2003 12:44:42  
Yeah, if you had arms 6 ft. long, didn't breathe while you were painting, and kept yer eyes shut, you'd probably get away without all that expensive equipment! Oh, i suppose if ya stood upwind, used a normal painters spray mask, (not a paper dust mask), and purchased a suit of paper coveralls to wear while painting, it probably wouldn't hurt ya too much! But with ISO additives, a little bit lasts a long time! I thought my normal paint mask was o.k., but found out much later that the ISO's were cumulative over time, which consequently did the damage! Another thing to think about: Don't have any equipment nearby, as the overspray will get on it, and it is a "B----" to remove! And don't paint on a windy day, except if you live around Chicago! Maybe you could rent or borrow a diaphragm, oilless, tankless air compressor for the one job. Note: you can't use the air in the regular compressor because the tank collects oily germs and other bad stuff you don't want to get in your lungs! Well, good luck. Its good to ask questions. Hope this helped! Yours: RJ

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
donm

01-10-2004 06:28:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Isocyanates Questions??? in reply to Rusty Jones, 09-15-2003 15:33:01  
Sounds like a tewtimonial for TSC enamel!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy