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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Thin Runny Paint

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carpenter

10-18-2003 11:46:57

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I am painting today the hood of my 730D John Deere. I have not Sprayed auto body paint in 20 years. Using Omi MTK with hardener and medium reducer. Mixing as per directions 4 to 1 to 1.
When I opened the paint it appeared very thin.
Stirred a long time untill all solids where lifted. Added hardener and reducer and mixed thoroughly. I let it sit about thirty minutes mixed again, filtered into gun and immediatly thought this is really thin. I can't handle this, even the overspray wants to sag. Is it me or is it the paint. Please does anyone have any thoughts.
The sheat metel was striped to bare metel, epoxy primered, very easy to spray. Next day primered with transtar, very easy to spray. Next day sanded
preped and primed again. Next day sanded and am trying to apply the yellow. Must stop and figure out the problem. Any Help?

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CNKS

10-19-2003 17:45:05

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Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to carpenter, 10-18-2003 11:46:57

I use Omni MTK also, and my results have been similar to Cliff's, although probably not as good. Are you using HVLP? HVLP uses about 50 psi inlet pressure, but delivers only about 10 psi at the tip. I have a Sharpe Platinum HVLP as does Cliff, and I actually have to work at it to get the paint to run or sag. Granted, the IH red formulation may be "heavier" than JD's yellow or green but it does NOT run or sag unless I mess up and get the gun too close or move too slowly. I have not yet had to change PPG's recommendations as to mixing the paint, and do it exactly as the spec sheets say. It flows out very evenly. It may not be likely, but it is possible that your supplier is not mixing the paint properly. How old is the paint? New paint is mixed by the dealer, and should not settle out as yours did. It should all go back into suspension by moderate hand shaking or stirring. Also, perhaps your gun is putting out too much paint and not enough air.

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carpenter

10-21-2003 20:10:36

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Re: Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to CNKS, 10-19-2003 17:45:05

Thanks again everyone.

I changed to fast reducer.
I cut reducer by 2/3rds.
Raised shop temp to 74 degrees.
Added a small amount of excelerator.
Adjusted gun to less material.
First coat very thin and let it flash well.
Turned out GREAT.

Thanks All.

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carpenter

10-19-2003 20:36:30

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Re: Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to CNKS, 10-19-2003 17:45:05

Thank-you Gene, Cliff and CNKS for the help.
It was only 68 Degrees in my shop with low humidity. The Paint was purchased three weeks ago, maybe it settled in that time although I checked the green and is not settled like the yellow. Both the yellow and the green can be seen through somewhat even before mixing with activator. The paint is thin like reducer with very fast thin strings at drip. The stir sticks look like they are covered with semi transparent wood stain. The Yellow will be all right but it took six coats. I will bring paint back to store to have them look and get faster reducer and try less of it. Maybe I'll ruff up and start again.
I'll let you Know what I learn. Thank-You

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Gene Bordelon

10-19-2003 23:26:47

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Re: Re: Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to carpenter, 10-19-2003 20:36:30

If the paint is transparent on the stick after mixing it up but before reducing, sounds like a bad mix or maybe it got frozen in shipment last winter, it happens. Perhaps try another brand paint altogether. Also practice a little bit on some sheetmetal or old thinner cans before you commit to putting the paint on the panel to be sure it's spraying and coating correctly.
Good Luck!

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Rod (NH)

10-19-2003 21:43:36

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Re: Re: Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to carpenter, 10-19-2003 20:36:30

Hi Carpenter,

Wow - 6 coats to cover? Well, that indicates you are not putting it on too heavy :o). I have used the MTK in orange and get very good coverage in 2 coats although I use 3 for good measure. With temperatures in the 60's, I would recommend the fast reducer (MR185) and also the fast hardener (MH167). There are 3 hardeners and 4 reducers, depending on application temperature. I use the standard 4:1:1 mix ratio w/o problems but you might want to consider the higher solids ratio of 4:1/2:1 (paint:reducer:hardener). It is a recommended option on the tech sheet. I have never tried that ratio because of no perceived need but it might help you out. There are also accelerator additives but I have never had the need to mess with those. I'm stumped as to your possible problem. I hesitate to suggest you might have gotten a poor mix from your supplier but CNKS may have a point there. Do you have an alternate supplier in your area that you could purcase a quart from to verify?

Rod

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Cliff Neubauer

10-19-2003 06:57:07

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Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to carpenter, 10-18-2003 11:46:57

I just finished painting my third tractor with the Omni MTK and yes it is pretty thin paint compared to others and some colors seem to be worse than others. As Gene said try spraying the first coat very light, as light as you can while still leaving the paint smooth. I'm guessing that you are spraying the paint too thick, with the yellow it should take at least two coats before you can't see the primer and maybe even three. You could also try adding less reducer and using a fast hardner or reducer will help alot too.

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Gene Bordelon

10-19-2003 07:45:46

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Re: Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 10-19-2003 06:57:07

You did a fabulous job on her Cliff! : )
I've never painted an International but I hope to paint one of those beasts someday. That hood section looks like it's fun to handle during prep lol.

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Gene Bordelon

10-18-2003 18:35:51

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Re: Thin Runny Paint in reply to carpenter, 10-18-2003 11:46:57

Hiya Carpenter, I just finished spraying a JD 2750 today with Nason (Dupont) factory pack JD green. It was the first time I've used Nason acrylic factory pack as I've been using the green available from the dealership but wasn't happy with it's drying time even with hardener. The Nason was extremely fast drying and has a great gloss. You might try it as it's very easy to use and it's only 30 bucks a gallon!
I havn't sprayed Omni but you might not want to thin it as much if it's very thin out of the can.
You want your mix to be about the consistency of cream, judge it by how it runs off the stick. It is rare for me to reduce any paint exactly as directed as many factors will determine the amount you have to reduce such as paint thiness, temperature, humididty and your spray gun tip size and flow. It has been my experience that if any paint is reduced exactly as directed on the can, it's usually way to thick and sprays like cottage cheese. The directions are general guidelines, you have to mix and spray it as directed and see how it flows, thin more if needed, it usually is.
You should also try using Fast reducer instead of medium since you havn't sprayed in a long time and it's quick setup will help keep you out of trouble. Try not to cover in one coat. Your first coat will have some transparency. Don't hit it again until it flashes over. Spray a light mist, if it stays wet it needs to dry longer. If it mists it with overspray then it's ready for the next coat. Spray as many coats as it takes to look correct. Usually 3 to 5. Also turn your gun output way down and gradually increase the flow until it takes 2 passes on the same area to get a slick look. If it's slick in just one pass you have the flow too high. Take your time and it should work out just fine.
Good luck!

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