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acrylic enamel hardener

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roon

02-14-2004 17:16:13




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Do all harderners for the acrylic enamel have isocynates in them? Would like to use the Omni line from PPG but do not have a supplied air system, and really do not want to invest in one for my simple projects.

Thanks




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Rod (NH)

02-14-2004 18:21:21




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 Re: acrylic enamel hardener in reply to roon, 02-14-2004 17:16:13  
Hi Roon,

CNKS is correct. PPG OMNI MAE Acrylic Enamel has two different hardeners available for optional use: MH101 and MH202. Both of these contain isocyanates. Your best source of information on the hazards of products and safety precautions in using them is the manufacturer's material safety data sheets (MSDS) that are required by law. Here's the MSDS for the MH101 hardener and here's the MSDS for the MH202 hardener. If you are unsure about the safe use of any product, be sure to check out the MSDS for it. It is important to understand that you need to check the MSDS for each individual constituent in a multipart product mix that you mix together yourself in the field. Isocyanates do not show up in the MSDS for the MAE acrylic enamel paint but do in the hardener that is optionally mixed with it. The mixture has the safety hazards of each of the ingredients.

third party image Rod

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CNKS

02-14-2004 17:45:53




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 Re: acrylic enamel hardener in reply to roon, 02-14-2004 17:16:13  
Yes



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CNKS

02-14-2004 17:50:21




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 Re: Re: acrylic enamel hardener in reply to CNKS, 02-14-2004 17:45:53  
But, you can use acrylic enamel without hardener, it is acrylic urethane that has to have it. It will look almost as good, you just have to wait a long time to remove defects and it takes several months to fully cure.



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roonfry

02-14-2004 19:09:47




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 Re: Re: Re: acrylic enamel hardener in reply to CNKS, 02-14-2004 17:50:21  
If I would decide to paint with the acrylic urethane, would it end up with as much hardness and resistance to gas and oil as acrylic enamel with hardener? What about the fade resistance? Would I need any special breathing protection with acrylic urethane?

Thanks for all your help,
roonfry



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CNKS

02-15-2004 13:19:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: acrylic enamel hardener in reply to roonfry, 02-14-2004 19:09:47  
As I said in the post above acrylic urethane HAS to have hardener, it will not cure without it and the hardener does contain isocyanates. Acrylic urethane is generally thought of as being superior to acrylic enamel. I personally do not know if it has more resistance to oil and gas. I would think the fade resistance would be more, and it flows out better than enamel. In my opinion it is not as resistant to small scratches as acrylic enamel with hardener, but that is simply an observation presented without proof. An advantage to urethane is it is very easy to repair -- sags and runs can be sanded out and repainted the next day. It is easier to color sand and buff if need be. However, I believe Rod and Butch will tell you that PPG's high end acrylic enamel (Delstar) is superior to both PPG Omni acrylic enamel and urethane.

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Rod (NH)

02-15-2004 17:45:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: acrylic enamel hardener in reply to CNKS, 02-15-2004 13:19:57  
Hi CNKS,

As far as I know, the AU is "supposed" to be better all around than the AE with hardener, although I have never found the AE w/hardener to be poor in any respect. I have quite a bit of experience with AE/h over the years and only a little (more recently) with the AU. The one thing that troubles me a bit with AU - at least the OMNI MTK - is that it seems to result in an extremely brittle film. This is just a passing observation and I have no real proof or careful study of it. It just seems to chip a lot more easily than the AE/h I am more used to. I have noticed this when installing painted bolt and screw heads. I have also noticed it where the hand crank occasionally rubs on the front sheet metal on my AC-B and the paint is actually chipped off in a small area rather than simply rubbed away. I am not sure if this is caused by poor adhesion for some reason or is due to the brittle film. I just have not noticed similar chipping with AE/h.

Yes, I think the PPG Delstar AE (which I can't get anymore in my area) is a step up in quality from the OMNI AU (MTK), after having used both. So is DuPont's Centari AE, which is also field-mixable as an AU (no semantic trick here). The Centari is significantly more expensive than the MTK however and I suspect the Delstar is also. Two years ago when I did much of the sheet metal on my AC-B, I used the MTK. I wanted to paint the headlight housings black. I had black in Centari left over from something else so used that instead of getting it in MTK. Noticeable difference in spraying. I think it has a higher solids content than the OMNI, which would explain the higher cost. It also flows out very nicely and is somewhat less susceptible to runs than the OMNI AU. I have had good luck with the MTK (except for that chipping thing) but if I had my druthers, I would use the Delstar or the Centari.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the possibility of repair work with AE/h. As long as the hardener is used, it can be sanded and recoated, even machine compounded. It may not be within hours as with the AU but certainly can be done in a few days at reasonable temperatures. I have done it successfully in the past. In other words, for me at least, the possibilty of having to do repair work would not be a deciding factor in moving from AE/h to AU.

I think next summer I may try some OMNI AE (MAE) with hardener to see if that is as chip-prone as the MTK. The MAE and the MTK seem to be the only paints that I can get AC persian orange (early shade) in at the present time.

third party image Rod

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CNKS

02-16-2004 18:00:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: acrylic enamel hardener in reply to Rod (NH), 02-15-2004 17:45:19  
Rod -- I got tired of messing with my supplied air system, that along with poor air circulation (no paint booth), making it difficult for me to see while painting numerous small parts. So, I bought some Omni AE for the small parts, intending to use it without hardener, thus I don't need my hood with its instantly fogged over lens (going to build a paint booth to solve this problem). Anyway, I did use MAE with hardener on a couple of parts, such as the air cleaner, etc, and the finish seems less prone to fine scratches than MTK -- such as with a rag, or even my finger, could be my imagination since I really didn't use it that much. Like you I have noticed that MTK seems brittle, but there seems to be a difference between batches, or perhaps between different applications. Could very well be my technique or gun settings. Next tractor I might try MAE on a large piece such as a hood and see how I like it. Up till now I have used MTK on nearly everything. As to the buffing, I haven't tried it. Was told by another experienced painter that it didn't sand or buff as well as MTK -- I don't know, perhaps I'll try it sometime.

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