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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Novice painting tractor/ Painting for dummies

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john in la

04-21-2004 12:52:39




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Looking for suggestions on how I should proceed with painting my tractor. I can do bondo and fiberglass work and have sprayed fill and sand primer before on a car. I let a friend spray the top coats. I have a cheap spray gun that came with my compressor; never has been used and do not know much about it. It has the cup on bottom so presume it is a siphon gun. This is a one time thing so hopefully I can use this cheap gun. I have looked through past post and have read Rod(nh)'s post on first paint job. Not that I follow every point but it was informative.

Now that you know a little about my ability. I have a ford 801 that was painted blue (wrong color) and the paint is chipping off down to bare metal in some spots. I was going to wait till I did all mechanical repairs then paint but think I should maybe rethink this. This is not a show tractor job but a working tractor. I was thinking of using regular tractor paint but would move to a bottom end auto paint if it is best. NO PAINT that requires forced air breathing at all. I am not interested in tackling the tin right now and we can save any advise on this to later. The area I am most interested in doing now is cast parts.

I am taking apart parts that need mechanical repair one at a time now and I am wondering if I should do any thing now as far as paint or wait till it is done and paint all at once. Some parts have surface rust from pressure washing and paint chipping to bare metal. For example I have the front axles apart now replacing wheel bearings and spindle bushings. I will fix this and use tractor for a while. As money allows I will take apart something else and repair that. Should I clean and prime and or paint at this time or just wait till all mechanical work is done and prime/ paint all at once.

Please be very specific and lead me like a small child. I need advise on what type of primer and paint to use and how to proceed.

Thanks John
For a picture of tractor look HERE

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Butch

04-22-2004 10:10:32




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 Re: Novice painting tractor/ Painting for dummies in reply to john in la, 04-21-2004 12:52:39  
How to paint a tractor A-Z is a purdy long winded topic to cover here. I would suggest a book or vidio on the subject to start with. I have included a link to a vidio sold on this site. I have never seen it but I assume it has much of the basic info you need. From looking at your picture you should not evenconsider over coating the paint that is on the tractor due to the fact the a previous job was sprayed over non prepared surface, thuis the flaking off. At the very least that last coat of paint needs to be removed. Preferably down to bare metal but that's your choice. I will caution you that the cheaper implement enamals, hardened or not, will fade before you eyes if you store the tractor outside. I personaly know of several painted with the stuff and stored outside that faded very badly in a year. I have a couple that were painted with the cheap paint and are stored inside and fussed over just a bit that stil look good after 3 years. I no longer use cheap paint, too much work involved in doing one right to have to do the same thing over in 4-5 years max. The low end auotmotive pants are the only thing we have found that will last long enough for a person to forget how much work he did to prepare the thing but require the use of a fresh air system, as you appearently know.

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john in la

04-22-2004 14:48:16




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 Re: Re: Novice painting tractor/ Painting for dumm in reply to Butch, 04-22-2004 10:10:32  
Thank you Butch for responding. Yes painting a-z would be long winded but let me try to rephrase my questions to see if this helps.
You say I should strip to bare metal and I agree. This is why I am thinking of doing it one part at a time. I have a pressure washer but no sand blaster. So I was planning on lye treating or paint stripper then pressure washing to remove as much as I can then sand or wire brush.
? 1 do I try to blow dry then prime or do I just let it flash rust then apply a phosphoric acid treatment?
I could try to paint piece by piece but thinking of leaving in the primer state then paint the top coats all at once.
? 2 this tractor will be used and stored out side so will the phosphoric acid treatment last under these conditions for a few months or do I need a primer?
So now I have the whole tractor striped to bare metal or sound paint and a primer or phosphoric acid treatment applied and it is time to paint.
? 3 Since I have gone well past my time frame of applying the next coat and since it would be very hard to sand or scuff all spots before painting can I use a self etching primer now to prepare for painting.
? 4 Since I will not use any paint that I need breathing with this leaves me with the tractor paint or the straight acrylic enamel without the hardener as I understand it. While fading is a concern it is a very minor one. Paint retention is what I am worried about. So I assume I should choose the straight acrylic enamel without the hardener.
Remember we are talking only cast parts. I will take the time to sand; bondo; prime with fill and sand; re-sand; and paint at a later date.
Thanks; John

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Rod (NH)

04-22-2004 21:17:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Novice painting tractor/ Painting for in reply to john in la, 04-22-2004 14:48:16  
Hi John,

I am not Butch but I generally agree with his posts on this forum. In any event, I'll take a crack at your questions with your stated limitations.

For cast only:
1.Forget phosphoric acid treatment
2.Forget etch primer (has a phosphoric acid component)
3.Power wash
4.Chemically strip all paint
5.Wire brush to as rust-free a surface as possible - shouldn't be too hard on the cast
6.Clean with specialized cleaner such as PPG DX330, Acryli-Clean
7.Prime immendiately with two part epoxy primer such as PPG OMNI MP170
8.Set aside until you are ready to color coat
9.When you are ready to color coat, clean again with the 330, scuff the epoxy with a coarse ScotchBrite pad and apply another coat of epoxy. The pad makes it generally fairly easy to get into odd areas that would be more difficult with sandpaper. You can also get the pads in small 2" and 3" discs that you can use in an electric drill or die grinder
10.Topcoat within the epoxy window (3 days for MP170 only)
11.Generally forget bondo on cast - not sure of your intent there

Since you wish to avoid isocyanates with no fresh air breathing equipment (good decision, btw) you are pretty much limited to enamels without hardeners. That leaves the synthetic enamels like most tractor store paints are and the acrylic enamels that are used in low-end automotive refinish work. The acrylic enamels will be a little better durability than the synthetics and are also somewhat more expensive. Two major lines of automotive acrylics are PPG's OMNI MAE acrylic enamel and DuPont's NASON Fast-Dry acrylic enamel. Both of these paints can be used w/o the hardener. Just be aware of the downsides of not using a hardener - see a previous post of mine for my opinions on this.

You might also be able to get a higher-end acrylic enamel in DuPont's Centari or PPG's Delstar but they may or may not be available in your area and they may or may not be available in the specialized tractor color formulations. Either can be used w/o hardener. They definitely would be more expensive than the OMNI or NASON choices.

third party image Rod

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Butch

04-23-2004 05:02:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice painting tractor/ Painting in reply to Rod (NH), 04-22-2004 21:17:13  
Thanks Rod, you said it better than I could anyway. I would only like to add that the two part expoxy primers are very nasty for a person's breathing innards even though they do not contain the Iso's like paint hardener so a person still needs to use a good mask with clean cartridges.



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john in la

04-23-2004 02:49:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice painting tractor/ Painting in reply to Rod (NH), 04-22-2004 21:17:13  
Thanks very much Rod. This is what I needed to know. I fully understand your step by step guide.

One more kind of dumb question I have is. This MP170 primer is two parts. OK say I mix up a pint but only use half. Can I save in a sealed container till next day and use or is this a use or lose once mixed? I realize there are downsides to not using hardener but this is something I will have to live with. I do not have the proper tools to use hardener and do not think it is worth buying for one time use. I also realize I will have to watch my air temperature for the proper reducer to use.

From reading previous post by you (painting part one and two) I have been set to use PPG OMNI.

To explain "11. Generally forget bondo on cast - not sure of your intent there"
What I meant to say was..... We are talking cast parts only. I will take the time to bondo; sand; ect; ect; the SHEET METAL parts later. Do not worry. Once I get the cast stripped and painted I will be back for advise on doing this. Just did not want some one to go into a long winded discussion on tin parts at this time.

Once again Thanks for the help.

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CNKS

04-23-2004 06:59:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Novice painting tractor/ Paint in reply to john in la, 04-23-2004 02:49:51  
I think the 170 has a pot life of 8 hrs, it will say on the spec sheet. So the answer to your question is no. Don't worry about it, you are not going to use much epoxy anyway, it is the cheapest part of the whole operation. 170 does not use reducer.



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Butch

04-22-2004 10:12:10




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 Re: Re: Novice painting tractor/ Painting for dumm in reply to Butch, 04-22-2004 10:10:32  
Forgot to add you can search down this forum for a lot of good basic instruction also.



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