Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Food For Thought

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Rod (NH)

06-04-2004 19:50:51




Report to Moderator

Here's an interesting post on another forum. Food for thought for anyone considering using isocyanates (hardeners) with only a canister mask...even outside for a one shot deal.

third party image Rod

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Rod (NH)

06-05-2004 16:15:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Food For Thought in reply to Rod (NH), 06-04-2004 19:50:51  
Well, I know I am preaching to the choir for you guys. However, the matter of "one time use" has come up here before and it is tempting for the ill-informed to rationalize that it is OK to use such materials without the recommended safety equipment if you are not exposed repeatedly over long periods. Hopefully, readers that have no idea of the potential health problems in using automotive paints with hardeners will think twice before making such a judgment.

Yes CN, I hope someone is reading this stuff besides the few of us. I wonder how many regular readers there are to this forum that never post? Anyone care to guess? Large? Small? Near zero?

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Butch

06-05-2004 18:40:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Food For Thought in reply to Rod (NH), 06-05-2004 16:15:29  
My guess would be that quite few look but don't post for a while or never post. As a person who's paint materials used to be Rustolium, Tractor Supply and Quality Farm and Fleet, mineral spirits etc I was quite intimadated by topics like ISOs, compatability, surfacers, urethane etc so I watched this board for quite a spell before I posted, learning much from you, CN and others who have come and gone. I would assume that at least a few others do the same. It was hear that I learned of the need for a fresh air system after my first experince with ISOs, PPG Delstar. I had been told a good quality mask would protect me "just to paint one tractor" luckily I suffered no permamant (fingers crossed) effect from it. In reading that disccusion on your link one of the posters brought up a another topic that I hope can be expanded upon here, skin protection. My painting "suit" is a pair of coveralls made from heavy cotton and a light but water proof pair of gloves with the cuffs banded over the cuffs. Should I be looking into something more protective? I notice in the body shops they use similar a similar looking outfit. When I inquired about them they seemd to only be concered that they were made from a lint free fabric.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rod (NH)

06-05-2004 22:28:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Food For Thought in reply to Butch, 06-05-2004 18:40:30  
As far as I know many pro bodyshops regularly use tyvek "shoot suits". I don't know if that is for personal protection or is, as you have noted, a way to avoid lint and such stuff from regular work clothes getting into the paint. Maybe both. I have not gone to that extent. I just try to make sure that most skin is covered by something, such as wearing long sleeves like CN. I do my painting outside and for relatively small parts, I hang them from a skyhook (tractor bucket). To avoid swaying and twisting due to the airflow from the gun, I use one hand to steady them. From that standpoint my arms, hands and fingers are the most in danger of direct, heavy skin contact with overspray. Indeed, I occasionally "paint" a few fingers this way :o). I have found that the throwaway blue nitrile gloves seem good for this. These are like the medical gloves. I don't particularly care for the heavier, thicker "painting" gloves that are available. They don't permit the dexterity and feel that I like. I could be wrong here but I have never noticed any rash or any particular skin problem in using them. I did read somewhere that latex was not a satisfactory material for iso protection. If anyone reading this knows that nitrile is a bad choice here, please advise.

The poster you mention indicated the skin was more important that lungs and recommended a cheap throw-away mask (not even a cartridge mask!). I have no expertise in the area but I would have to disagree with that. I have never seen anything from any credible source that would support such a statement. I agree with CN's priority listing: Respiratory system first, eyes second and skin last. I use a full facepiece that also provides eye protection similar to a full hood. It strikes me that just regular glasses or typical safety glasses would not be adequate for that purpose.

For reference, here's a good read that's short and to the point. It seems to be consistent with the above priority ranking.

You bring up a good point about intimidating terminology. The automotive paint world is far more complex than the hardware-store-enamel/mineral spirit world. Plus there are a number of different manufacturers each with a similar but slightly different array of products in different chemistries, having different safety issues and usage instructions that cover several different cost-competitive lines, most of which are not compatible with each other. Those of us who are comfortable and reasonably fluent with such things many times forget that others are not. I see where it can be intimidating. Hopefully it won't completely discourage newbies/lurkers from posting.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

06-05-2004 19:03:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Food For Thought in reply to Butch, 06-05-2004 18:40:30  
I have read that your eyes are the most important, next to your respiratory system, apparantly isos are attracted to moisture. I have a full hood, and usually wear a long sleeve shirt and cheap gloves. Perhaps I should wear tyvec coveralls or something, as I don't know anything about penetration into different types of fabric. I'm not too concerned about that until someone tells me otherwise. The OWNER of the place I buy my paint says I don't need a supplied air system just a mask, because "that's the way we've always done it".

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dozerboss

06-05-2004 21:33:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Food For Thought in reply to CNKS, 06-05-2004 19:03:33  
Commenting on the clothing protection,
I was watching American hot rod on discovery channel last night. It had Boyd's hot rod shop in Ca doing body work and painting a custom rod. I found it interesting they were power grinding lead filler with out a mask. Also painting primer in short pants and a tee shirt and with just a dust mask type mask. (this was the shop foreman). Later when they were sanding bondo, they all wore dust masks. But when sweeping up-they even swept the dust up next to the bathroom door and blew it into the BR as a joke on the guy in there using it with no mask. (hopefully the lead dust was not in with it)

Then when he did the top coats, he worn a full coverall type suit, gloves and air supplied hood. They didn't say what type of materials they were using, other than E coat as the primer which i thought would be epoxy primer?. I think that they have to use some of the water borne paints out there due to the air laws, but i wouldn't think it would be safe enough for your skin to wear shorts and a tee. They had the best paint room money could buy with a chain system to hang the bare chasis on to paint all sides at one time. Money was no object there, but they were cutting corners on safety i thought and the foreman was 26. No lifetime craftsmen there, one 18 year old, one 19 and sander/sweep up guy in his thirties.

I did learn one tip i hadn't thought of, they used dish soapy water when wet sanding to surface clean and sand at the same time. Be safe out there.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rod (NH)

06-05-2004 22:50:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Food For Thought in reply to Dozerboss, 06-05-2004 21:33:21  
Talk about intimidating/confusing terminology! I always thought E-prime was an electrodeposition primer used by the OEMs and not a shorthand for epoxy. Now I don't know at all :o). Same with wet-on-wet, another wierd term bandied around that I have not seen defined. I take it to mean a coat of something within the stated time window of the underlying product and not coating immediately, even before the other product has flashed off. I have seen it used that way (immediately) but don't know if it is correct.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dozerboss

06-06-2004 19:09:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Food For Thought in reply to Rod (NH), 06-05-2004 22:50:12  
This was a new kit car type body, so now that i think about it, it had some type of primer on it when they got it. Black as i recall. Maybe your right about it being an electrodeposition primer, because they primed it in gray but said they were sanding the e-coat. The primer they sprayed and sanded may have been just a guide coat as after they sanded that, they put bondo on the whole body than sanded it all off except the low spots. They even did the frame with bondo the same way later. Wish they had explained the work and materials in detail. Instead they were focusing on the relationships within the shop, argueing with the owner they shouldn't paint the office file cabinets too because they were car builders etc. First time i had seen it. They ended the show with 6 top coats explaining they needed so many to color sand which i guess will be on next week.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

06-05-2004 10:07:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Food For Thought in reply to Rod (NH), 06-04-2004 19:50:51  
I hope someone else reads that instead of just us. Iso's make me sick with next to no exposure. I used a supplied air system the 1st time I ever used iso's, so theoretically, I should not be "sensitized" to them. Last fall I painted a tractor, and noticed a few places on the rear wheels that were not covered well. Used a charcoal mask and my touch up gun for just an occasional squirt, maybe a couple of seconds at a time for 5-10 minutes. While I didn't hack and cough and gasp, etc, within about an hour I was feeling the effects--went away in a couple of hours. It does not take much of this stuff to have an effect. A charcoal mask will just not work unless it fits perfectly (not likely) and the filters are new. I note that in your link, most of the other posters think a mask is ok. I hope we all don't get banned from painting someday, unless we have a license or an approved building or something, because of the people who have no common sense.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Butch

06-05-2004 05:19:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Food For Thought in reply to Rod (NH), 06-04-2004 19:50:51  
I see those guys kinda get into it just as we do now and then, lol. Seriously, I know several people including two men that I graduated school with that are afected for life from working in body shops without proper breathing equipment. I guess all of us who know better have a duty of sorts here to smack down hard anybody who suggests that its not going to hurt to spray a little hardend paint. Thanks Rod

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dozerboss

06-04-2004 21:51:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: Food For Thought in reply to Rod (NH), 06-04-2004 19:50:51  
Recently i said a fresh air system was cheaper than one visit to the emergency room. Now i feel thats quite an understatement. Thanks for the reminder and website and a point well made.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy