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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

help rod(nh),cnks,butch and other experts

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bill b va

06-18-2004 13:58:39

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i have 2 new doors for my 78 chev 3/ 4 ton pickup made in where ever (certified by auto rebuilders) that has what i think is laquer primer on them . i want to put epoxy primer on them . my question is do i remove this primer or just put the epoxy over it ?

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bill b va

06-19-2004 14:14:29

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Re: help rod(nh),cnks,butch and other experts in reply to bill b va, 06-18-2004 13:58:39

thanks for the replies below . i saturated the corner of a shop rag with laquer thinner and rubbed it vigoursly for about 30 seconds and nothing came off except a faint black smudge on the rag .the door was made in tiwan and contains a certification on the packing as to the fit and finish

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Dozerboss

06-19-2004 23:17:17

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Re: Re: help rod(nh),cnks,butch and other experts in reply to bill b va, 06-19-2004 14:14:29

Hello, Does the certificate say the finish meets OEM standards? If so it should be electrodeposition primer. A major reason why cars don't rust like they did in the '60's and '70's was the adoption of this process of priming metal. The metal and paint are both charged, one positive and one negative so they are attracted to each other, like a magnet to metal. The real protection comes where seams meet, such as at the bottom of the door skin. You just can't get down in there with a spray gun and not miss some spots. So they used to just spray undercoat type materials without priming, in there which would peel over time and make a breeding ground for rust. In my opinion, to be sure, the certificate should say meets OEM corrosion standards. It's saying meets fit and finish is a grey area. Finish is supposed to be paint in my book. That would include the top coat. I would try to find the manufacturer's name and search the web for them for a contact or at least primer specs. Also, look inside the shell and see if the primer is uniform and covering all surfaces - no bare metal. If it looks good in there, it's probably electrodeposition primer. They still use undercoating and seam sealing type material, but it's over the electrodeposition primer. I'm concerned that the rag did pick up a little bit of color not knowing what color primer you have. The ones I am familiar with are black. It would also have picked up any traces of oil, grease or other dirt which would show up black too.

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Rod (NH)

06-18-2004 20:21:52

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Re: help rod(nh),cnks,butch and other experts in reply to bill b va, 06-18-2004 13:58:39

Hi there Bill,

CNKS is correct. It all depends on the quality of the existing primer.

If it is an OEM electrodeposition primer, I think you would do best to leave it alone. On the other hand, if it is a cheap thin coat of lacquer primer just to retard flash rusting, I think it best that you completely remove it and provide a good two-part epoxy base for your topcoat. If they are "knock-off" replacement doors, it probably is the latter but here's what I would do to check things out:

Check a small area by scrubbing with a cloth soaked in lacquer thinner. You don't have to scrub hard. If some of the color rubs off on the cloth I would remove all the existing primer (probably with a chemical stripper), give the bare metal an etching treatment with a phosphoric acid solution(s) such as DuPont's 5717S and 5718S and use the two-part epoxy as your primer.

If there is no rub-off of color on the cloth, I would leave the existing primer in place, scuff with a scotchbrite pad, put a coat of two-part epoxy over it and topcoat.

Rod

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CNKS

06-18-2004 17:56:33

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Re: help rod(nh),cnks,butch and other experts in reply to bill b va, 06-18-2004 13:58:39

Epoxy "may" seal it -- but your doors were probably made overseas, and there is no way of knowing what it is or it's quality. I would remove it.

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Dozerboss

06-18-2004 22:12:43

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Re: Re: help rod(nh),cnks,butch and other experts in reply to CNKS, 06-18-2004 17:56:33

I agree with Rod that a laquer rag will pull some color off a laquer primer and is a valid test. Also an electrodeposition primer is an excellant base. If it fails the rag test--strip it. If it's not effected, suggest you try to get info from the manufactuer or dealer you got it from before stripping it. The electrodeposition primer is excellant for ad hesion and rust prevention. It would be a shame to strip it without going "to the wall if necessary" to find out first. If all you get are specs sheets that are poorly translated into english, the prudent thing to do then is strip it all. I haven't seen anyone not like epoxy, use it if you have to strip or not, you can't go wrong with it.

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