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Recoat Window for OMNI 182?

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Paul_NJ

06-29-2004 21:31:46




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I've been cleaning and priming parts for my Farmall Cub with rattle can etch primer, followed by OMNI 182, as recommended by my paint supplier. Yeah I know, next tractor project I'll use 170 epoxy primer, as I've since learned from this board. But for now, here's my situation. I have parts primed with 182 that have been sitting on the shelf for anywhere from 1 to 6 months. Does 182 have a recoat window like epoxy primer? Should I Scotchbrite them before topcoating? Should I apply a fresh coat of 182 after Scotchbrite and then topcoat?

I'm planning on OMNI urethane (solid coat, not clear)with hardener for the topcoat. So I don't make a similar novice mistake when I go in to buy the paint and hardener, what topcoat products should I be getting? Do you typically use a smaller orifice set (HVLP) with topcoat vs primer (182)?

Thanks for your help. Wish I had found this site six months ago.

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Butch

06-30-2004 06:41:37




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 Re: Recoat Window for OMNI 182? in reply to Paul_NJ, 06-29-2004 21:31:46  
Rod did his usual fine job with materials, I'll try to help you with the tip size deal. Fine tuning the gun tip size for the viscosity of each material used is certainly a proper thing to do but dont get worried that your tip being off a tenth will ruin your paint job, at least with the equipment I use which is an Astro HVLP with (I think) 1.5 tip. I never change it. I change the viscosity of my materials to suit my gun, not visa versa. As I try to state now and then,thats just my personal prefferance, its another way to get the same job done as changing tip size. My supplier reccomended the tip that is in my gun as a "middle of the road" size that would spray most automotive finishes, I can check the size if you wish. Anyway, with PPG Omni products I find that I can use all of them at very close to recomended ratios. On hot days I might add a dab of reducer to 170 if I plan to top coat directly over it. Very little reducer is needed to make it lay down. Since any part that gets a surfacer is going to be sanded I pay little attention to how it goes down, I use 181 50-50 as directed. For my MTK top coats if I am at the prime temp for the hardener and reducer I am using the first coat goes on per the can directions. Additional coats need a dash more reducer to keep them laying down to suit me, but that is true of any material or gun I have used. The best tip size is also very much affected by your individual technique. If your a "high gunner" or speedy in your motions your going to need a larger tip than if the gun is kept at the recomended distance and speeds. Conversely if you are a low gunner or slow in motion a smaller tip will work better. Whatever your speed, equipment or techinique, if your materials are giving satisfactory results youve got the right tip in your gun IMO

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Paul_NJ

06-30-2004 07:11:04




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 Re: Re: Recoat Window for OMNI 182? in reply to Butch, 06-30-2004 06:41:37  
Thanks Butch

You guys are a great help!

Paul



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Rod (NH)

06-29-2004 22:37:18




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 Re: Recoat Window for OMNI 182? in reply to Paul_NJ, 06-29-2004 21:31:46  
Paul,

"I have parts primed with 182 that have been sitting on the shelf for anywhere from 1 to 6 months. Does 182 have a recoat window like epoxy primer?"

No, there is no recoat window.

"Should I Scotchbrite them before topcoating?"

No. Just sand with 400 or finer grit prior to topcoat if you haven't already done so. You should also do a final cleaning with DX330 or equal and tack rag off immediately before topcoating.

"Should I apply a fresh coat of 182 after Scotchbrite and then topcoat?"

No need to apply additional 182 if the surface is nice and smooth. As noted above, my preference at this point would be the 400grit paper instead of Scotchbrite (for sheetmetal, not castings).

"I'm planning on OMNI urethane (solid coat, not clear)with hardener for the topcoat. So I don't make a similar novice mistake when I go in to buy the paint and hardener, what topcoat products should I be getting?"

The OMNI single stage urethane is called OMNI MTK. If your code (color) number is XXXXX, then you want OMNI MTK XXXXX. It requires the hardener. Unlike the MAE enamel, it cannot be used without it, since it would not cure properly. There are three different hardeners and four different reducers to be used, depending on the temperature at time of application. See the tech sheet here. The tech sheet doesn't give you actual temperature ranges. Here's my own interpretation:
MH167 - Fast Hardener - 60-75 deg F
MH168 - Slow Hardener - 70-85 deg F
MH169 - Very Slow Hardener - 80-95 deg F
MR185 - Fast Reducer - 60-70 deg F
MR186 - Medium Reducer - 70-80 deg F
MR187 - Slow Reducer - 80-90 deg F
MR188 - Very Slow Reducer - 90+ deg F
"Do you typically use a smaller orifice set (HVLP) with topcoat vs primer (182)?"

Either CNKS or Butch or someone else can help you out here better than I. I think the answer is probably yes, providing you are talking the 182 surfacer rather than a straight primer like the 170 epoxy...however, I am not a fan of HVLP and have no experience with using different tip sizes. The couple of times I used the 182 without a pressure-fed gun I had to use the same tip size as used for the topcoat. It worked but was not as fast or as good as what a larger tip would have provided. I suspect one tip size larger would have been better.

third party image Rod

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Paul_NJ

06-30-2004 04:40:58




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 Re: Re: Recoat Window for OMNI 182? in reply to Rod (NH), 06-29-2004 22:37:18  
Rod

Thanks alot for your suggestions on proceedure. I'll certainly follow them. Plus, knowing what to ask for when I go in to the paint dealer sure helps tremendously.

Paul



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