ISO Redux

Rod

As usual, yourself and CNKS seem to be very knowledgeable about the paint and bodywork. The information that I have read from the posts that the two of you make is very educational. I do apologize in advance if any of the posts or comments I make upset either one of you.

With that being said, here is my question. Is there anything out there still that a person can use to paint with that won't kill them? I have heard too many times over the years (I am not just speaking about what I read here on the YT Forums) where someone was painting a car, truck, tractor, etc. and was overcome by the chemicals related to painting. In the late 70's and early 80's when I worked in the garages and a few times at home, I painted equipment, tractors, and a couple of vehicles. This was for resale and personal use. The paint jobs weren't the quality "off the showroom floor" finish, but were decent looking and served the purpose of paint. In the near future I hope to be putting some tractors and equipment that are in need of TLC back into operational condition, and maybe even a few to possibly sell if the price of repairing doesn't double the cost of resale. Is there still a product out there on the market that I can use that isn't going to kill me? I have used filters in the past, and have a respirator that was issued to me that I didn't turn in when Bio-Engineering deemed that we didn't need them anymore for the cleaning room due to the filtration system that was in use. I always figured that I may need it again, and filters would be a lot cheaper than the full face respirator. This thing resembles the MCU-2P, and is made/marketed by 3M.

Thanks in advance for any and all imputs that you may have on this subject.
Jim

So if I use the acylic enamel without the hardener, with adequate ventilation, rubber gloves and a mask I should be okay. It's been awhile, but when I had to use the mask that I have it was a requirement to have a fit test done on it. Yes, it was fitted. I would've turned it in, but thought that some day it may come in handy. It is kept (as it always has when not in use) in a sealed plastic bag. I know the filters will require replacement.

Thanks again for both of yours inputs. Jim

There is no reason to apologize for anything and no reason for either myself or CNKS to be upset about anything. There are differences of opinion on any subject, including the hazards of isocyanates. We have been expressing our opinions based upon our own past experiences, taken together with published industry standards and guidance. Others can and do feel differently. Different people are affected in different ways by isos and some seem not to be affected much at all. The preponderance of evidence over many years however, is that these specific chemicals are especially hazardous to one's health and that extra precautions should be taken when using them. There are those that argue that a standard chemical cartridge mask can provide adequate protection against isos if used properly. While that may be true, most would rightfully advise against it because of unknown individual tolerance levels, undetermined exposure levels and uncontrolled variables involved with such a practice.

Remember that isocyanates are only present in the hardeners used as an optional additive in enamels and as a required additive in all the 2-part urethane paints. Standard synthetic and acrylic enamels do not contain such chemicals by themselves and can be used safely with a regular chemical cartridge mask. That is not to say the standard paints are good to breathe. They are not. There is bad "stuff" in all paints. It is just that the risk to health is significantly less w/o isos and filtration through a cartridge, even if not perfect, can provide adequate protection. If one is not in the employ of others where there are legal and work related requirements for fresh air respirators when using isos, the decision to get by with only filtration cartridges is entirely up to the individual. Those that ignore the printed safety instructions on the products they use do so at their own risk however. See the fine print on any hardener can label.

Sooo...if you want to avoid isocyanates altogether or the risk of using them w/o a fresh air respirator you are left with the following options, IMO:

1. Rattle can paint - both enamel and lacquer versions
2. Synthetic (alkyd) enamels w/o hardeners - these are the typical "tractor store" and hardware store enamel paints 3. Acrylic enamels w/o hardeners - there are some decent automotive paints in this category such as DuPont's Centari and PPG's OMNI MAE (also PPG's Delstar if you can find it). Martin Senour (NAPA) also has, I think, a competitive line of enamels that do not require an iso additive.

Any of the above can produce a result that looks very nice indeed. Not Mercedes quality, to be sure. But nice nevertheless. At least for a while. They all will provide decent protection for the metal. The synthetics should be as good as the OEM paint, at least that used on vintage tractors. The acrylics will be a little better and usually will also carry a higher price. Where they all fall short is in long term gloss retention, fade and chemical spill resistance and questionable near term repair capability, compared to hardened enamels and urethanes. Keeping the vehicles shedded when not in use and avoiding gasoline spills can minimize these shortfalls. That's the "price" one has to pay to avoid isocyanates in modern paints. It was good enough years ago before isos were developed and it can be good enough today if one doesn't expect '90's urethane performance from '50's synthetic enamels.

Rod

We as novice first and one time painters know nothing about ISOs or fresh air systems. We have paint suppliers that know if they mention fresh air they may loose the sale and even you have a post on the disadvantages of not using hardener. The difference between you and the paint dealers I have talked to is that you give us all the info (good and bad) most times in very long and thought out post that allows us to make a educated decision on all the facts. If some one uses ISOs with out a fresh air system after reading just one page of this board they have no one to blame but themselves.

Yes, I don't dispute the performance advantages of modern urethanes and hardened enamels. They are what I choose to use routinely as a part time "hobby" DIY painter. But I will not recommend them to anyone who does not have the respiratory equipment to use them safely, even for a one-time deal. I am dismayed that after 30 years of industry experience with health problems (including deaths), regulatory agency requirements, labor laws and safety warnings concerning the hazards of isos, that those who sell such materials aren't more knowledgeable and open about the matter. But I suppose it is easy to play fast and loose with someone else's health just like it is easy to spend someone else's money.