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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Deere Paint

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Mitch

07-22-2004 13:09:11

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I'm gonna paint my tractor soon (46 JD A) and was gonna use john deere's paint and thinner, i want a hardner that has a big time "wet look" i want the tractor to look like the paint is still wet and people are afraid to touch it. Anybody know of a good hardner that will work with deere paint and thinner? Also, how many coats is suggested for a good paint job that won't chip easliy or fade fast?

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jlc

07-25-2004 20:25:47

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Re: Deere Paint in reply to Mitch, 07-22-2004 13:09:11

Mark
My son and I use JD paint, thinner and primer. We have had good luck with there paint products.
We use hardner from NAPA I thank the # is 8010 or something like that. It is a senthol enamel hardner and works good in JD paint. The person at NAPA should be able to help you. I am at work or I could give you the #. If you cannot find the hardner get back with me and I will get the # for you It cost a little over $30.00 a pint but it goes a long way.

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Dozerboss

07-26-2004 21:07:25

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Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to jlc, 07-25-2004 20:25:47

I doubt seriously Deere makes its own paint. (they don't even make there own undercarriage parts for their dozers anymore--made in italy by sorfa) If you look at a new JD tractor you will find foreign parts all over it--Spain,Italy, and Japan on a lot of components including tires made in taiwan. Also their hand tools made in china. There chainsaws are made in Mexico. Gearboxes on cutters made in Spain. I know alot of you guys buy JD green because you want the color to match, any good paint store can match it if you bring a sample or part with you. I don't think a hardner will change the gloss of the paint for a wet look. You need a clear coat or urethane to get a wet look. If it's gotta be the JD paint, the choice is to apply a clear over it or go with a urethane. With a clearcoat over it you run the risk the two materials will reject each other and wrinkle leaving you with a mess you will have to strip. You run that risk mixing brands like the napa hardner--sometimes it works, sometimes not. With the added cost of an extra clear, you could buy urethane. JD does have excellant primers that resist rust when scratched--e coat i believe. But i don't think a hardner will bring gloss, its made to dry the paint, not change the pigment or give it gloss. I wish they would offer urethane on there products or urethane paint, but not everyone needs or wants to pay for "shiny" equipment. Either be satisfied with factory JD or have urethane made is my opinion. We have had good success with napa (martin senor) paint, its quality but mixing brands is another thing altogther.

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Cliff Neubauer

07-27-2004 17:51:37

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Re: Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to Dozerboss, 07-26-2004 21:07:25

I know when Deere started using dip tanks to paint their combines several years ago they were using urethane paint with that system. I don't think alot of people realize that the paint dealers sell is not the same paint that those companies use in their in their factories. Most factories use special paints because they require a very short drying time due to the volume of equipment they have to paint. I have heard some people say they want to use the dealer paint in their restoration to make it more "original" but getting the original paint used in the factories is most likely impossible and in all reality today's automotive paints are so much better than what they were putting on tractors 50 years ago that I think it's a no brainer to use automotive paints.

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CNKS

07-22-2004 17:37:06

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Re: Deere Paint in reply to Mitch, 07-22-2004 13:09:11

I don't have any green tractors, so I can't answer your questions. JD paint is synthetic enamel, and there is not much you can do to prevent fading besides leaving it inside all the time. I would suggest a name brand quality paint for the type of high quality paint job that you want. It takes more than hardener, surface prep and the application of correct primers is very important. Read the archives of this forum for ideas, then ask specific questions.

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Dozerboss

07-23-2004 09:06:54

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Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to CNKS, 07-22-2004 17:37:06

You may want to consider an automotive Urethane enamel instead of JD's acrylic or synthetic enamel for high gloss. Urethane's have clear built into them, are tougher and more chip and fade resistant than acylic or synthetic enamels. They are also more expensive. See the discussion below several days ago on urethane vs acrylic enamel. You can expect years of shine on outdoor stored equipment with urethane. An automotive clearcoat basecoat also has gloss but is not nearly as durable as urethane. I know Martin senior (Napa) and PPG/Omni both make JD green in urethane. We have had old JD construction yellow made in urethane also. Dupont's brand name for urethane is Imron.
You will need breathing protection from ISO'S with any of these paints, all use hardners.

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Jim Ulmer

07-27-2004 00:15:35

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Re: Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to Dozerboss, 07-23-2004 09:06:54

Close but no cigar. In automotive BC/CC systems, the clear is almost always a catalyzed 2 part urethane. You also have the option of several different clears depending on your intended usage. The urethane enamels are very good but second to the BC/CC system for color and gloss retention.

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Dozerboss

07-29-2004 10:10:33

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to Jim Ulmer, 07-27-2004 00:15:35

I see a lot of peeling clearcoat going down the highway, mostly 90's GM and Chrysler products. So I'm not in agreement CC/BB is a more durable paint than a urethane. It is an easier paint for a beginner to master and a more profitable paint time wise for a professional to use. It heldup to diesel fuel spills on our former truck which was a Ford, However all the fuel tankers locally are painted with urethane because of its durability factor. For them the shine is just a bonus, they use plain old battleship gray. This maybe just a differance of opinion on which paint is more durable, but i haven't studied the lit on clearcoat basecoat in a while. If there is a manufactuers comparison you can show me or a reformulation, i'd like to read about it.

An important point was made above, the refinish paints we use are differant than the paints manufactuers use. They may tank, heat or bake on their finishes, you wouldn't be able to "match" the factory paint without the same equipment and paint formulation. Refinish paints are the best match possible. If your going to the trouble to properly prepare and repaint i think automotive quality is mandatory.

I don't think anyone ever answered the ? about how many coats--2 to 3 medium coats for an enamel or urethane usually is recommended for proper paint film thickness and coverage. What happened to Mitch anyway--must be working on the project instead of surfing the board.

Off the subject, i notice most of the equipment trailer and implement manufactuers use the cheapest paint they can. Fades to chalky in less than a year.

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Jim Ulmer

07-27-2004 19:54:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to Jim Ulmer, 07-27-2004 00:15:35

I've used both and I have grown to like BC/CC partially because I think it is easier to do a quality job. You worry about the color (and metallic) with the base and work for nice even gloss with the clear. Only problem I see on old stuff is that it does look better than new.

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CNKS

07-27-2004 07:22:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to Jim Ulmer, 07-27-2004 00:15:35

I will agree that BC/CC IS urethane. Somewhat overkill for a tractor, but probably superior to single stage urethane if you are a perfectionist.

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Dozerbosss

07-29-2004 11:16:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to CNKS, 07-27-2004 07:22:17

Urethane enamel is a catalyzed 2 part paint. Well, actually if you count thinner you have 3 parts-paint, hardner and thinner. From what i have read CC/BC has been around just as long. It was orginally used on garaged show cars for the extra shine but the problems with the clears peeling prevented it from becoming the choice of car makers in the beginning. Maybe they have solved those problems in the past few years but definitely not since car makers have started using it as evidenced by the many peeling clear coats on cars not garaged.

The base coat is simply a dusty type coating, is it not? So my impression is you are depending on the clear with its urethane to protect the base coat and your color. While a urethane enamel combines the toughness of urethane and enamel in one coating. Now that I reread your post, the application part of urethane enamel could be considered single stage due to it being applied in individual coats like lacquers or other enamels.

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Jim Ulmer

08-01-2004 19:11:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Deere Paint in reply to Dozerbosss, 07-29-2004 11:16:00

You see a bunch of peeling GMs because GM screwed up big time in their paint process, especially on trucks. 2 component paint has a limited recoat window before you have to do eatra steps. Word is GM waited too long so had a lot of vehicles where the paint never properly stuck to the primer. For the bad clear coats, their accountants spec'd the cheap stuff that didn't have enough ultraviolet resistance and let the base coat oxidize. Once that happened, the clear comes off in sheets.
Color coats come in both catalyized and non versions. PPG DBU requires a catalyst and DBC does not. DBC is now the more popular because it doesn't have an many health implications.
Urethane enamel is a 2k, two component, paint. I used Dupont Imron when it first came out because it was the best at the time. Fleets often like it because the process is simpler - spray the color and go. A BC/CC using a high solids clear will survive very well to exposure.

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