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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Too Thick MP-182?

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Paul_NJ

09-22-2004 13:39:05




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I reopened my gallon can of OMNI MP-182 that had a couple of inches left in it from the last time I had used it this Spring. It looked a little thicker than I remembered, but I blended it 5:1 with 166 and sprayed it anyway. Now matter how I adjusted the (HVLP) gun, I got a speckled & rough finish. Guess it WAS too thick. Since this is my final sanding coat before the top coat, I guess the finish doesn't matter (Is that true??). But this brings up a few questions.

1. does the primer finish matter if I'm sanding?

2. should I have tried to add reducer to thin it out? The spec sheet doesn't mention any reducer. Do you guys us those viscosity cups (one came with my gun) to determine the right thickness? Or should I have thrown it out when it looked too thick?

3. What is the best way to store paint & primer? Apparently the top wasn't fully sealing. Should I pour the last remaining inches into a bottle to reduce the amount of air? Would it help to encase the can in plastic? How long can you store partially used cans?

I'd appreciate knowing how you all do it.

Thanks

Paul

P.S. Do you recommend MP174 (epoxy) over the 182 prior to MTK?

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Big Jim

09-22-2004 21:00:36




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 Storing Paint in reply to Paul_NJ, 09-22-2004 13:39:05  
If you have it to use, here"s a tip I picked up. Add a little Argon from your TIG or MIG to the paint can before sealing it up. Argon is heavier than air and inert so it protects the surface of the remaining paint. This is supposed to work really well with hardener which normally has a short shelf life once opened. I"ve added a little T and valve to the outlet of my regulator to make it easy.



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Big Jim

09-22-2004 20:50:57




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 Storing Paint in reply to Paul_NJ, 09-22-2004 13:39:05  
If you have it to use, here"s a tip I picked up. Add a little Argon from your TIG or MIG to the paint can before sealing it up. Argon is heavier than air and inert so it protects the surface of the remaining paint. This is supposed to work really well with hardener which normally has a short shelf life once opened. I"ve added a little T and valve to the outlet of my regulator to make it easy.



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Rod (NH)

09-22-2004 18:26:16




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 Re: Too Thick MP-182? in reply to Paul_NJ, 09-22-2004 13:39:05  
Hi Paul,

Here's my opinion:

1. does the primer finish matter if I'm sanding?

Not really.

2. should I have tried to add reducer to thin it out? The spec sheet doesn't mention any reducer. Do you guys us those viscosity cups (one came with my gun) to determine the right thickness? Or should I have thrown it out when it looked too thick?

You really should not have to reduce it. Are you sure you stirred it well before each prior use? That's about all I can think of unless you are using too small a tip size or too low an air pressure at the gun. I haven't used a viscosity cup in years. I once had a problem with DuPont's Centari where I just couldn't keep it from running, even when mixing exactly like the label instructions. I finally checked with a viscosity cup and found I could only reduce it 25% (or 33%-I can't recall) instead of the 50% specified in order to get the recommended spraying viscosity. That experience led me away from DuPont at the time and to PPG. I have not had such a problem in recent years with either PPG or DuPont. I have found their mix ratios as indicated on the appropriate tech sheet to work fine without the need to check the actual viscosity. As a matter of fact, I don't think PPG even indicates a recommended spraying viscosity on any of their tech sheets.

3. What is the best way to store paint & primer? Apparently the top wasn't fully sealing. Should I pour the last remaining inches into a bottle to reduce the amount of air? Would it help to encase the can in plastic? How long can you store partially used cans?

I just make sure that the can rim is pretty much clean of paint and that the cover is tightly installed. I don't take any other precaution. I have used paint from partially full cans that are several years old with no problem.

P.S. Do you recommend MP174 (epoxy) over the 182 prior to MTK?

No. There should be no advantage that I can see of topping the 182 surfacer with the 170 epoxy primer. I think you mean MP170 - I have never heard of a MP174.

As to your other post - Recoating MP-174:

How roughed up does it have to be? What do you recommend: Scotchbrite, sandpaper(grit level?)

I recommend a ScotchBrite pad. I use the the general purpose 3M #7447 (maroon color) for just about everything like that.

After roughing, should I recoat with 174 before top coating (MTK), or topcoat directly?

Again, I think you mean MP170. The tech sheet says to re-apply after the window. That's to get the best adhesion of the topcoat. Do you absolutley have to do it? Probably not - but I would. I don't think it's a big deal to shoot another coat after the window. Why not do everything you can to obtain the best adhesion?

third party image Rod

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Frank Stalfire

09-25-2004 18:48:02




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 Re: Too Thick MP-182? in reply to Rod (NH), 09-22-2004 18:26:16  
Hi Paul
I am a paint rep for Dupont and would like to give you a little info on viscosity and storage. First, a can of paint is mostly solvent and when exposed to air solvent evaporates ( giving off VOC's ) after a can is opened solvent starts evaporating and when lid is not closed tightly solvent will continue to evaporate and the film gets thicker until only the solids are left. If you have an old can that has started to thicken and you HAVE to use it, reduce it with a like solvent, 2K for 2K, 1K for 1K. as far as viscosity cups, they are the best way to get consistant results when the enviroment changes, when the enviroment is warm the viscosity of the paint gets thinner and when cold it gets thicker, you add more or less reducer to keep the viscosity the same for consistant spray charateristics. Most painters today will not take the time to check viscosity and go strictly by the tech sheet not taking into consideration the tech sheet ratios for reducer are for 70 deg. @ 50% humidity. The amount of reducer you use can be adjusted to achive the desired viscosity, you cannot however change the amount of catalyst. Hope that helps and doesn't confuse.
Frank

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Paul_NJ

09-27-2004 19:30:51




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 Re: Too Thick MP-182? in reply to Frank Stalfire, 09-25-2004 18:48:02  
Hi Frank

Thanks for the information. However, let's take this specific case. I don't think the spec sheet for MP 182 lists a reducer. So what product would I use to thin the MP 182? I suppose I could look at the chemical composition of the solvent listed for MP 182 and find an OMNI reducer that matches, but is there an easier way??

Paul



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Frank Stalfire

09-27-2004 20:12:18




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 Re: Too Thick MP-182? in reply to Paul_NJ, 09-27-2004 19:30:51  
HI Paul
i'm not up to speed on PPG product no's but I think your talking about primer. The easy way to come up with a compatable reducer is to keep it in "kind" if this is a catalized primer use an Omni solvent that is used in another catalized product like clear or single stage, chances are the only difference is that the solvents are different blends developed to perform a certain way, do however be sure to keep it in the same family, don't use base coat reducer because of Parafin wax and don't use laquer or enamel reducer because of the petroleum. Hope this helps.

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