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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Self etch primer? Is it worth the price?

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Wayne Wiseman

10-12-2004 10:25:38

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I'm getting ready to paint a 1950 Ferguson TO20. Local NAPA store recommends using self etch primer on bare metal, then urethane filler/primer and then urethane single stage paint. The cheapest self etch primer is $100.00 gallon. Is it worth the price? If not, what should I use on bare metal?

Has anyone used the NAPA single stage urethane?

Thanks

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Wayne Wiseman

10-14-2004 17:15:40

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Thanks from Wayne in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 10-12-2004 10:25:38

Thanks to everyone. I now have a much better understanding about primers.
Fergy will look at lot better with your help.

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loy

10-13-2004 11:23:44

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Re: Self etch primer? Is it worth the price? in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 10-12-2004 10:25:38

Any decent paint job has to start at the bare metal, if it isn't right there, the rest can't be right either. Any bare metal needs to be chemically etched, mechanical sanding is not enough. This can be done with "metalprep" which should be available at any good body and paint supply house. or with a good self etch primer. The etch primer is a lot easier and less work. I have worked a lot with the Dupont Variprime product, and that could be topcoated directly with color on your castings, but would need a coat of primer on your sheetmetal. Most primers are urethane anymore to get a rapid cure, no more laquer. A quart of etch primer is mixed one to one with an activator, and applied properly goes a long ways. I think its a great value.

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Wayne Wiseman

10-14-2004 17:18:29

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Loy. Where purchase BASF/RM Zip 834 self etch pri in reply to loy, 10-13-2004 11:23:44

Where can I purchase BASF/RM Zip 834 self etch primer?

What is the cost?

Thanks

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Duner Wi

10-14-2004 17:44:08

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Re: Loy. Where purchase BASF/RM Zip 834 self etch in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 10-14-2004 17:18:29

You will need to find an Automotive Paint store that sells BASF products. BASF sells paint under more than one label but has kept the Zip 834 name regardless if it is RM, BASF etc. Last qt. was over $30.00. Read the directions and don't put it on thick. Good luck!

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Frank Stalfire

10-12-2004 20:36:00

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Re: Self etch primer? Is it worth the price? in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 10-12-2004 10:25:38

Hi Wayne
Listen to all the replys here as thay are all right, I just wanted to through in my 2 cents, first you only apply etch at .5-.6 mils which is a medium coat and which also means a gallon would do a school bus since most etch primers are a 1:1 mix. Also etch primers do exactly that they "etch " the surface when you don't have a profile to acheive adheasion the acid in the etch provides the adheasion so if you have sandblasted or created a good profile with mechanical methods like sanding you can use an Epoxy primer. so the pros and cons are, you can slack on the sanding and use an acid etch and save the time of sanding alot but you cannot topcoat etch primer you have to use a sealer or a primer on top of it, you can work at sanding good or sandblasting and use epoxy which you can directly topcoat.

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Duner Wi

10-12-2004 18:38:54

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Re: Self etch primer? Is it worth the price? in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 10-12-2004 10:25:38

I use BASF/RM Zip 834 self etch primer for many years under all sorts of primer. You apply one or two thin coats. One quart will more than cover a Fergy.

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CNKS

10-12-2004 17:35:53

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Re: Self etch primer? Is it worth the price? in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 10-12-2004 10:25:38

Chances are good you are going to wire brush and sand it before you paint anyway. That etches the surface, thus the etch primer is not needed. IMO etch primer is a body shop primer, when they just strip the old paint and apply the etch, rather than sand. I agree with Rod, but it kind of depends on what the individual is used to. $100 a gallon for primer is kind of steep.

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Rod (NH)

10-12-2004 12:45:53

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Re: Self etch primer? Is it worth the price? in reply to Wayne Wiseman, 10-12-2004 10:25:38

Hi Wayne,

Well, you may get some different opinions on that. I would personally say no, it is not worth it. But then again I am a fan of epoxy primer instead of etch. There are others that are fans of etch primer. A more detailed explanation of my opinion is in a previous post of mine here. In any event get the technical data sheets for each of the NAPA (Martin Senour) products you plan on purchasing here and review them carefully for specific usage instructions. Some etch primers have significant limitations due to the acidic component in them. The manufacturer's written instructions are usually preferred over the recommendations of the salesman behind the counter. For example, a "filler/primer" is generally not needed or recommended over a cast iron substrate. However, unlike epoxy primer, some type of other primer is usually necessary over an etch before topcoat. The tech sheets on the products will advise what is needed. There are not many cast iron cars out there so I would take the autobody recommendations with a grain of salt in that regard.

I have not used NAPA paint products but am aware that they have more than one "line" of paints, similar to DuPont and PPG. The $100/gal for the etch primer does not sound to me like it is in the "economy" line of products so if price is a consideration, you should inquire what etch they have in another line. I would expect the single stage urethane to be comparable to either DuPont or PPG in similar cost-competitive lines. I recommend you review the special safety considerations before a final decision on using any urethane product. Do a search on isos or isocyanates for a lot of discussion about the matter in this forum.

Rod

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