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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

clear coat

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AZ Jack

04-01-2005 19:24:38

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Is there any advantage to clear coating urethane-will it make it last longer? Or will the urethane hold up just as well alone? Thanks, Jack

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Frank Stalfire

04-02-2005 14:43:36

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Re: clear coat in reply to AZ Jack, 04-01-2005 19:24:38

Hands down, it will last longer. clear has more UV screener in it. and doesn't have pigmnet exposed to the enviroment

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Rod (NH)

04-02-2005 16:17:23

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Re: clear coat in reply to Frank Stalfire, 04-02-2005 14:43:36

As long as it doesn't delaminate from the single stage about eight or ten years down the road :o). I have had three vehicles now where the factory OEM clearcoat peeled away from the basecoat in a major way - two Hondas a couple of years apart and a much newer Ford, so it's not just a single manufacturer's one time problem. Seems to me to be systemic with clears although the newer ones may be less prone to it. It's real ugly with no easy fix. I'd rather have an old faded synthetic enamel than that. I'd be interested in your thoughts Frank. If it takes the high end, expensive clears to get the benefit of "additional" UV protection and peel resistance, then I would question the value of a clear over single stage but I suppose you get what you want to pay for and it becomes an economic choice on longevity vs price. And if you're going to clear anyway, for longevity, why not use BC/CC in the first place rather than bothering with the single stage. Do you suppose SS/CC would be longer lived than BC/CC, all other variables being the same?

I've cleared over single stage urethane on parts that I used decals on. I think it gives cut vinyl decals a better, more "painted on" appearance as it smoothes the edges. Plus it provides a little physical protection to the decal itself. It costs more and takes longer of course since the additional material has to be applied, all within a certain timeframe of the color underneath.

On the downside, I have noticed that minor scratches in clearcoat tend to take on a whitish appearance. Sure looks like crap on my black truck (OEM finish). I suppose they could be rubbed out if they are not deep enough to get into the base. However the factory clear is pretty thin and doesn't leave much to play with. I think such scratches would be less obvious if there were no clearcoat and the color was a single stage.

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Frank Stalfire

04-02-2005 20:05:39

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Re: clear coat in reply to Rod (NH), 04-02-2005 16:17:23

I'm very familiar with the delaminations on the american cars, I can say i have not yet seen a delam on a honda, I would question it being a facory finish or a dealer refinish. The gm peelers were from under and over baking, the dodge was from skipping the sealer and UV gooing thru the base and attacking the etch, it always happened on silvers. as for todays refinish coating, if proper proceedures are observed, there is no risk for failure, we even go the extra mile and train technitions to add catalyst to the base so the base will crosslink with the clear. of course this is all realative to the system you use, Nason carries no warranty, DuPont does, PPG does, ect.
as for clear coating single stage, the benifit is chip resistance, some swear it is a deeper look but that is subjective. base/ clear is more economical and easier, and more colors are available, but all the UV screener is in the clear so whats underneath is for looks and chip resistance, I personally have a Farmall B, and F12, and an unstyled A Jonh Deere and never concidered not clear coating my stuff. As for the scratches, you can buff them without worry, the OEM does clear at a thickness of about 1.5 mills which is 1 mill less then we do in refinish but the clear the OEM uses is twice as hard and so the risk of burn thru is less when you buff, by the way if you singe stage something and buff it, you've just buffed off all the Uv protection and voided your warranty, single stage UV protection is not a part of the chemistry but an addative that floats to the top and when you buff it gets buffed away.

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Rod (NH)

04-03-2005 17:41:13

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Re: clear coat in reply to Frank Stalfire, 04-02-2005 20:05:39

The two Hondas were 1978 and 1980, the beginnings of the OEM BC/CC systems. Since I got them both used I am not absolutely positive. However, I never saw any indication that they were anything other than the original factory finish. I believe they were factory. I also understand that the Japanese were using base/clear before it became widespread in the US. The Ford was a 1989 Ranger. I know for sure that was OEM base/clear since it was in the family since new. My experience with GM was with a 1983 Chev truck. It was not base/clear but was a single stage that separated from the primer. Not like the clear peelers that all separated between the clear and the basecoat. I know the Chev was factory since I purchased the truck new. I think it was when GM was messing around with waterborne products. The topcoat-to-primer adhesion was so poor that when I repainted the truck, I could remove about 50% of the remaining topcoat simply by using wide masking tape and pulling away. The color (very faded) came right off easily. The primer was great (I think it was EDP) but the topcoat was the worst paint product I ever saw and is a reason (among several others) why I will never own another GM product. I also had, until last year, a 1972 Jeep truck. Factory SS finish - I think probably baked alkyd enamel. Badly faded but still tightly adhering color and primer (except where rusted through by road salt) even after over 30 years. No excuse for peelers, clear or otherwise.

I have never buffed (compounded) a single stage urethane but I have, in years past, power compounded both Centari and Delstar single stage AEs. Used with hardener of course. No clearcoat. I never noticed a problem after several years of continuous outside exposure. No obvious fading compared with the uncompounded portion of the vehicles and no adhesion or other failures. They both were over epoxy primer. I don't know what a longer (>5years) experience would have indicated. This was in the early '80s. I never thought or cared much about warranty. As a backyard painter using a PPG primer under a DuPont topcoat I'd have been laughed at anyway in trying for any warranty, even if I did have a problem :o). I was laughed at (essentially) by GM when I approached them about fixing their paint problem. Too late for any warranty coverage. They lost a customer forever with that attitude.

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CNKS

04-03-2005 18:37:04

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Re: clear coat in reply to Rod (NH), 04-03-2005 17:41:13

I had two 1984 Chevy pickups. One was mine, one was my employers. Obviously I took better care of the one I owned. It was stolen in 1992, never to be seen again. I kept it waxed and the paint was like new (I take care of things, that's why it was stolen). But, it was showing some peeling on the lower portion of the body, the blue part, it was blue and silver. Oddly, the silver paint was holding up well for some weird reason. Although I have been told otherwise, I think the waxing postphoned the peeling. The other I washed, but seldom waxed. It was the same color, but blue all over. The paint was beginning to peel off and when washed, blue paint would come off when I dried it. Worst paint I have ever seen, bar none. I have seen many Chevy's, Ford's and Dodges in that condition, including the new Chevy pickup that came out in 1988. I now have a 1992 GMC, bought new. Except for a few chips (road damage), far as I'm concerned the paint looks every bit as good as it did in 1992. It has always been garaged at night, but set outside in the daytime for the first 8 years of its life. A vast improvement over the 198?-88's. Sometime in the 1988-92 period GM, Ford, and Dodge got their acts together.

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CNKS

04-03-2005 07:13:32

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Re: clear coat in reply to Frank Stalfire, 04-02-2005 20:05:39

So the buffing I did on my Super H, painted with Omni single stage AU, to remove the orange peel, means it will fade faster?

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Frank Stalfire

04-03-2005 19:51:31

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Re: clear coat in reply to CNKS, 04-03-2005 07:13:32

As soon as I say "yes, it will fade faster" someone will reply and say they buffed one 10 years ago and had no problem, but "yes" it will fade fatser, that is, dependent on how much exterior exposure it gets will determine how quick

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CNKS

04-04-2005 06:26:35

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Re: clear coat in reply to Frank Stalfire, 04-03-2005 19:51:31

Just curious, the tractor is inside, should still be better than tractor store paint -- thanks.

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