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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Reducer for MP170

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PaulW_NJ

05-08-2005 06:23:29




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Hi

I opened my can of epoxy primer from last year, after purchasing a new quart of reducer, but found the coat I received a bit "rough speckled". Everything was the same as last fall when I could get a nice smooth coat with my HVLP gun. Tried adjusting paint knob but didn"t help much. I could go up to the next size nozzle set, but I thought I"d try adding some reducer first - it does seem slightly thicker than I remember. Can I use the same reducer I use with MTK?

Thanks

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CNKS

05-08-2005 11:21:41




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 Re: Reducer for MP170 in reply to PaulW_NJ, 05-08-2005 06:23:29  
MP 170 does not need reducer -- but, having had the same problem as you, I sometimes have reduced it 5%, with good results, I believe I used the MTK reducer, don't remember. But if you had good results before, either shake the stuff up good, or have your supplier do it on his electric shaker, or buy new. I really believe my problem has been gun adjustment, but, for me adding the reducer is easier than adjusting the gun. If you are putting sandable surfacer over the 170 (181 or 182), it doesn't matter anyway. Also, in my gun, I went DOWN from a 1.8 to a 1.5 -- it was smoother.

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PaulW_NJ

05-08-2005 15:59:46




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 Re: Reducer for MP170 in reply to CNKS, 05-08-2005 11:21:41  
Thanks for the suggestion - I"ll try reducing it with MTK reducer as you mentioned. I"d just like to smooth it out a little.



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Rod (NH)

05-08-2005 17:05:38




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 Re: Reducer for MP170 in reply to PaulW_NJ, 05-08-2005 15:59:46  
Paul,

I agree with CN that going up in nozzle size is the wrong direction if you are having orange peel problems. What size are you using now? The tech sheet recommends 1.3-1.5mm (full sized gun).

I don't think I'd use the MR reducer in the 170. I'm not saying it won't work - just that it is not indicated by the manufacturer on the tech sheet. Plus it is from a different family of products. The tech sheet indicates that acetone can be used up to 10% of mixed 170/175. I have never used that but it is something I would try first before the MR.

I have never had a problem with the 170 flowing out nice and smooth w/o any reduction. Are you sure you are adjusting the atomizing air to your gun correctly? Too low an air pressure can also be the cause of orange peel problems.

Rod

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PaulW_NJ

05-08-2005 17:59:31




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 Re: Reducer for MP170 in reply to Rod (NH), 05-08-2005 17:05:38  
Rod

I hadn"t thought of this, but the orange peel link you sent (which was excellent by the way) mentioned low temperature. I was painting out of doors when the temperature was 55-60 degrees. Could that have contributed to the problem? The 170 spec sheet doesn"t mention an application temperature range, but it does refer to 70 degrees F. The MTK layed down perfectly, but the 170 was the problem.

The gun tip size was the same for both, and the same I used last fall. I did feel a little residue in the bottom of the gallon can even though I stirred with the stick for quite awhile. The paint has been sitting out in my barn all winter, and it had been in the 40"s at night last week, so perhaps the paint"s temperature was lower than the air temperature. You"re up in NH where it"s colder still this time of year. Do you experience such temperature related problems?

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Rod (NH)

05-08-2005 20:17:42




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 Re: Reducer for MP170 in reply to PaulW_NJ, 05-08-2005 17:59:31  
Now that you mention it, I do see that reference to low temperature in the link - thanks to DuPont, btw. That's something I wouldn't have expected. Usually it's the higher temps and faster reducers that lead to orange peel. I have no experience painting below about 65 deg and I prefer to be up in the 70's, at least for topcoat. However, I think you should have been OK at 55-60. I just don't like to go that low as a precaution. The 70 deg indicated in the tech sheet is pretty much universally accepted as a standard reference temperature to predict paint dry times. Generally, cooler would take longer and hotter would be faster than noted.

About three weeks ago, I applied some 170 to one of my AC-B fenders. We had three or four nice days that were well into the 60's, near 70. I was able to apply the 170 and 182 surfacer at that time. I wouldn't have attempted it at all below 65, but that's just me. I never got a chance to apply the topcoat. The weather turned cooler, down into the 40's and 50's during the day and has stayed below 60 since then. I am hoping to get the color on this week since the forecast is for temps up into the 70's by midweek.

I guess you could say I really haven't experienced any temperature problems since I just don't paint below about 65 or above about 85. I paint outside so I have to work with the weather. I have no choice.

The 170 I used hadn't been opened since last year. It took a lot of stirring to get everything uniform. Perhaps that could be some of your problem. Since you didn't have the problem with MTK, then the tip size and air pressure would not appear to be causes.

You mentioned that it appeared a little thicker than you remembered from the last time. That could be due to the cooler temperature, but I don't know. I think that the painting surface, the paint itself and the ambient air should all be about the same temperature for the best result. I do have trouble with a cooler paint being the cause of orange peel. I would expect just the opposite. On the other hand, I understand there will not be a proper chemical reaction with the catalyst below 50 deg. I don't know if that would affect the flowout - possibly it could. However, you could make the same argument with the MTK (assuming it was also in the barn) and you didn't have a problem with that. Sorry to ramble here - just throwing out some thoughts.

Did you say (or mean to say) you used a new batch of 175 catalyst for the mix? I know it's extremely poor to blame materials but it is possible, although unlikely, that you got some bad catalyst. If you have some of the old catalyst left from last time, you could try it out on some scrap just to eliminate the catalyst being the possible culprit.

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