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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Rust Pits

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skycarp

06-04-2005 18:53:34




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Hi all.

After removing the paint from a Ford fender I am refinishing, I found rust pits through the metal (see picture). The panel for the support bracket is tack welded on the back side of the fender in the area of the pits. I believe that water laid in between the fender and the support panel and over time caused the rusting.

This back panel would make it very hard repair this rust-
through. I thought of cutting out the rusted section and replacing with a new piece, but the panel on the backside would make this very difficult.

The metal in all areas has been treated with a rust convertor called Destroyer. I suspect this product is phosphoric acid based.

Any suggestions as to how to repair this would be appreciated. I am new at body work but have access to most of the tools and materials needed. I am learning as I go.

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Rod (NH)

06-04-2005 20:27:09




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 Re: Rust Pits in reply to skycarp, 06-04-2005 18:53:34  
Hi skycarp,

Those "rust pits" are actually rust throughs :o). I had some similar rust throughs in one of my AC-B fenders that I had to deal with recently. I chose to braze them shut using an oxy-acet torch and flux-coated bronze brazing rod. For my purposes this was a better (and easier) choice than any type of welding or cutting out and patching. If it was an automobile subject to highway salt, the only real lasting choice would be to cut out and weld in full steel patches but that is not the case with most tractors. You can see the problem I had and how I dealt with it here. In particular, go to photos numbered 10, 11 and 12.

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TDK

06-05-2005 10:46:03




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 Re: Rust Pits in reply to Rod (NH), 06-04-2005 20:27:09  
Rod, the pics and descriptions are very informative. Do you have any more similar ones ?



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Rod (NH)

06-05-2005 19:46:00




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 Re: Rust Pits in reply to TDK, 06-05-2005 10:46:03  
I am not sure what you are looking for by "similar" ones. I have a few other, essentially dupicate, ones on the fender project but they don't show anything new or different about painting or preparation. I don't have any others specifically on painting because this was the first time that I recorded steps in the process. I have some other pictures on my website that are part of writeups describing non-painting changes that I have made to my B. A 12V alternator conversion, an oil filter investigation, the use of a "speedi-sleeve" for an oil seal and installing a fuel bowl riser are some writeups of mine that I have posted there. There are also a couple of pictures showing how I added power steering to my Oliver 77 using a torque generator. Plus there are some general pictures of my B with different implements.

I did the paint writeup thing to document how I do it myself. There are always lots of general repeat questions on this forum about process and materials. I believe in the old saying that a picture is worth a thousand words. I also have fun doing such things. And not just the painting. I get to use my digital camera more and learn additional stuff about not only digital photos but also setting up and maintaining a simple web site at the same time. Strictly backyard and non-professional, but if anyone else gets a new idea from it, or is helped at all, that's great.

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skycarp

06-04-2005 21:11:53




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 Re: Rust Pits in reply to Rod (NH), 06-04-2005 20:27:09  
Thanks Rod. That was a great step by step on how to repair and paint a fender.

I have a torch and fluxed brass rod. I see the flame is weak on oxy and you are holding the tip away from the work. Is this the correct method to braze light metal like a fender? I can guess that you want a lower heat with brass than with steal rod.



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Rod (NH)

06-05-2005 19:31:45




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 Re: Rust Pits in reply to skycarp, 06-04-2005 21:11:53  
I didn't intend for the flame to be set at anything other than neutral :o). I set it as I always have - having a well defined inner cone that is not pointy and has no secondary feather. I may have been a touch light on the oxy flow though. The picture shows the tip held farther back but that is not the way I started the process. After the steel gets hot enough to flow the bronze rod, I retract the tip to cut back on the heat input. I don't want to melt the steel portion, which is easy to do, especially with the thin section in the area. Too much heat will tend to melt the steel and the whole mess would fall away. Too little heat and the bronze would not flow out well onto the surrounding steel. I also play the torch on and off the brazing point towards the end to further fine tune the heat input while watching how the bronze material flows out. I think (not sure) that the adjacent carbon deposits that show are due to the fact that that area is "washed" by the outer flame envelope.

I use basically the same technique that I use for soft soldering copper tubing except I use an air-acet torch for that rather than oxy-acet. An air-acet torch might have worked here also but would have taken significantly longer to get the job done (if at all) because of the large surrounding steel heat sink and the higher melting temperature of the bronze, as compared with soft solder. A smaller tip size might have been more appropriate too. Brazing is more like soft soldering than welding. The idea is not to melt the base metal since you are not trying to fuse the base metal intimately together with the rod like you would do in welding. The temperatures required are a lot lower than for gas welding using a steel rod.

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