Trying to select the right paint

Question: I remember reading somewhere in the forum that some companies red topcoat came out too orange. I thing it was CNKS mentioning that. What paint oompany was that? And does anyone have the correct color designations from Dupont and PPG for a 1950 SA? Just want to make sure the paint store gets it right. Im going to use the poison paint and fresh air.

Thanks for all your help guys.

scott#2

One note on that Spies filler for the tin though, the tech said to use Spies 8590 Vario sealer over the poly filler. I wonder if that will be ok with whatever top coat I will use. Mabey Rod will comment. Being a rookie at this painting stuff, I guess once the sealer goes down, next is top coat only, no more filling, sanding and such?

Given the 3 day window with the epoxy, I guess its, prime, fill, sand, seal, all within that 3 day window. Dont have to have the topcoat on as long as its sealed, right?

I sure do appreciate all your help, hopefully my ignorance is nearing its end.

scott#2

No matter how you approach this, you are likely to become frustrated at some point. I did just doing one of my fenders that was similarly pitted - and it was open and easy sanding with no tight spots. Just take it slow. Do a bit at a time and don't expect quick results. Don't try and complete the grill in conjunction with the rest of the tractor. You are likely to spend many hours on that grill alone.

In any event, why bother mixing and matching products and assuming any compatibility risk? If you want to use the Spies sprayable polyester, why not stick with Spies' products all the way, including topcoat if you can get the right color, although that may be questionable? I can't see the apparent benefit in Spies' sprayable polyester over, for instance, the PPG OMNI sprayable polyester. The Spies appears to be a more heavily-bodied product since it recommends a larger tip size and shows a thicker film build per coat. It's probably also significantly more expensive. Better for body shops with large application areas and power sanding (that time thing again) but of debatable extra benefit for the DIY with only fingers. As far as being able to fill rust pits, I see no benefit over the OMNI. Of course I see no particular benefit in a sprayable vs a spreadable product in your particular application since it appears to require tedious hand sanding as opposed to power sanding. As CN says, you're going to wind up having to sand most of it off anyway. There will simply be more sanding with a sprayable product. With only hand sanding in tight areas that's a definite consideration. But that's your choice.

I have no idea if you can avoid sanding that sealer. A quick check of the tech sheet for the 8590 "sealer" you mention indicates that it is a surfacer. Surfacers usually require sanding although this one seems to also permit a non-sanding "wet-on-wet" application of the topcoat. The way I read that is the topcoat would be applied after a short flash off but before the "sealer" has had a chance to completely dry. With such a procedure you would need to be prepared to apply the topcoat right away, certainly the same day as the "sealer". Compatibilty between products from different manufacturer's (OMNI color) could then also raise it's ugly head. Plus, if for whatever reason the "sealer" didn't lay down flat and you got some unacceptable orange peel, you'd be back to even more sanding before the color. CN brings up an excellent point here also. After you are done sanding the polyester, you will likely have considerable bare metal showing (all the high spots). The "sealer" really is not intended to be applied to bare metal. Read the tech sheet and you will find still another product recommended in such an instance before the "sealer". The only way to avoid this that I can see is to avoid cutting through to bare metal on the polyester - a tricky proposition at that point in the process. Again, I agree with CN - epoxy can also be used as a sealer, if needed, and there are no problems with going direct to bare metal with it. You might also have to sand the polyester with a fairly fine grit if you want to avoid a true surfacer application and go with just a non-sanding sealer. That seems pretty laborious to me and I wouldn't look forward to it.

When all is said and done the best approach, where possible, is to select a topcoat and work backwards through the same product line of the same manufacturer for all recommended products. There are millions of different possible combinations out there otherwise. Unless someone knows for sure or has successfully used the exact combination you are considering, it's a matter of uninformed opinion. Getting a good result with that is a crap shoot.

The screen must come out.

I now understand your argument against the sprayable filler, only thing though, Im already 50, by time I finish with the spreadable poly and a 1/2" brush, I'll most likely be pushing up daisies. With all that pitting, maybe I should use a 6" house painting brush. (just kidding) I can now see it taking a few days work just getting it halfway acceptable, never mind paint.

I am in no way interested in wasting time or money on an experiment or a crap shot so I will stay within the tried and true method you two have spelled out. Thanks for all your help and dealing with hard headed me. I will post pics as they become available. I will probably start on the tin in 2-3 weeks.

Thansk again, you two no doubt have saved me toil and trouble.

scott#2

Here's an idea l'd try: Get some blue nitrile gloves if you don't already have any. You should have 'em anyway when using products with isos. They are cheap enough - I think you can get a hundred of 'em for about $15. You can try smearing some finishing putty with your finger along the sides and curved ends of the openings between the cross members wherever there is significant pitting there. I have never tried it that way but I sure would if I had that to deal with. The idea, of course, is to get the putty in the pits themselves but leave a minimum on the high areas surrounding each pit. If that can be accomplished in some fashion or by some method, you will minimize your sanding effort. If you haven't already seen it, here's what my pitted fender looked like (after sanding) in the areas that I applied the finishing putty. Click on the thumbnail to bring up a full sized image:

Your's should look something like that after sanding the putty and before a coat of epoxy and surfacer.

You should try and avoid getting any polyester (either sprayable or spreadable) into the horizontal groove and the vertical corner areas. It would be hard to sand in the corners and a real mess to try and do anything with in the groove. If you leave any in the groove, it'll look like crap IMO. If the upper and lower portions of the grill can be separated to avoid dealing with that groove, that would be the best way to proceed. Otherwise try to keep any putty out of the groove. And when you apply the surfacer, try to go light in the area of the groove. I know that's not easy with a spray pattern. You could try inserting a piece of masking tape on just the sides of the groove to keep the higher build surfacer out of that area. You want epoxy and color down in there but not anything that would take up space and change the appearance of the groove. In other words, you want it to remain looking like a two-piece part. That is the reason I did not want to weld up a lap joint seam in my fender and used a seam sealer instead. It remains looking like a two-piece part. If you haven't already seen the photos of my fender experience, they are here.

The sprayable polyester would have been a viable choice for me on the fender because of the easy configuration and the ability to power sand much of it. But I couldn't spray it with my spot gun and I didn't want to bother trying something new using my pressure pot setup for just a small fender. As it turned out, in hindsight, I should have spread the putty over the entire fender. I do not think that spreading it over pits is that big a deal - in general. You are not trying to fill a broad crease or uneven wave or dent. You simply squeeqee the stuff over the pits using the adjacent high areas as screeds. In fact, I suspect that spreading it over that entire fender would have taken less time than cleaning a pressure pot arrangement afterwards. Yours is more difficult to apply with the tight areas and the close curves but the process is the same. I am curious if the experienced person who keyed you into the sprayable polyester actually saw your grill. If so, you might ask him how much it would cost you for him to fix it properly using his own methods and materials except for an acrylic urethane topcoat that you would provide to him. He might, or might not, be interested in such a possibility. Probably not.

Don't try for asbsolute perfection. It's not worth it. Some of the smaller pits that may remain, especially on the lower sides of the crossmembers, will not be noticeable unless you inspect real close. A casual walker-by will not notice them at all. Concentrate on the most visable areas from a normal standing position. Do post pics. It's always interesting to see stuff like that.

My main desire here is for this machine to turn out very niice and last a loong time. I have a few friends that are pro painters for 40+ years now. I usually get them to do my stuff for me. Mark (my friend with the collision repair center) would do it for next to nothing. I lent my pick up truck out to someone and they wrecked it. Took it to mark and he said he would do it for cost. Wound up paying him $272.00 for what was about $1800.00 of work on the receipt. He would probable do it all for free or next to it.

I am really in this for the knowledge gained. I would like to learn the finer aspects of this skill and have this one come out better than the last. That is always my goal. The last tractor I did, I sprayed myself. Came out nice, but not excellent. (Ive seen some pics on this forum of very excellent work, like an Allis hood that I think you did Ron.) I just want to get to that point. With the exception of the last tractor I did (JD 420, please forgive me), I have never sprayed it myself, always had someone else do it. Boats and aeroplanes, did all the mechanical work, made them cruise and fly, but never painted a damn one myself. I have always lacked that sence of completion and satisfaction of laying the shine down. After the JD, I realized, that's what its all about.

I is my opinion that if you dont strive for perfection, you learn nothing and usually, always come up short. I really detest any effort that is less than your best. I for one do not tolerate a quagmire of medoricoty in anything I do. That is perhaps the reasion I have about pestered you fine folks to death. I apolojize.

I have hawked this forum relentlesly, and have seen and re read all body repair/painting posts and pictures at least twice. Even managed to remember a few procedures and product names.

I will still probably use the flowable putty. After all sanding is sanding and mils are to be kept to a minimun for a long lasting finish. By the way, Mark and his 2 painters did see the grill and jumped all over it with thas Spies product, but as you have reminded me, that is a production, profit center. Thats just what they would do, in their opinion. I just though it was a neat concept plus I have been know to throw the dice on much more than an occasional basis.

Thanks for all your experiences, suggestions and talent. Im getting there. Sorry for the rambling.

scott#2