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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Green paint so $$$?

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Jeb2N

07-09-2005 16:21:35




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I went to NAPA to get some green base/clear paint to do an engine that i'm working on (hit and miss). I was looking for Brewster green, but then decided that since it was so ridiculously expensive, that i would try to find another similar shade of green. I want Base/clear because of the fuel/oil resistance they have and on a hit-miss engine, you have to have that resistance or you have nothing at all. Well, no matter what shade of green I picked out, they were all running $100 per QUART!!! NOT GALLON, QUART! And you still had to get the catalyst and clear after that. Why the heck is green so expensive? I am very strongly considering just doing the Duplicolor rattle can ceramic engine paint (did this on my maytag) because it's about the right shade of green but the finish is fairly rough. If i did the ceramic paint, i'd consider applying the same high temp clear made by duplicolor but i don't know how it will come out (smooth or still rough with an additional protective layer). Any suggestions on where I can get some base/clear green that won't make me have a stroke when I see the cahsier? Thanks.

Jeb

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Rustyj14

08-07-2005 10:12:24




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to Jeb2N, 07-09-2005 16:21:35  
Ha!! You think Green is expensive! I went to the local auto paint store to buy paint for my 95 Buick. I have some areas to refinish and also a better front fender! Now, when i started in the auto body trade, i could buy a pint of Martin-Senour laquer for $1.25! That was in or about 1951-2! The quart of acrylic laquer metallic gold color, a quart of clear, and several sheets of wet or dry sand paper came to--get ready--heart attack time---$117!!! Oh, they threw in 3 paint stir sticks, but well, i had a hard time digesting the total price! i think the paint companies have raised their paint prices so high, to keep the back-yard body and paint men from taking jobs away from established shops, and also for protection from unscrupulous lawyers, who have undoubtedly gotten rich from suing the paint companies, for auto and other painters who have been incapacitated by the paint companies products! So, next time just go down to the hardware store and buy some Rust-o-leum, apply it with those sponge brushes, and you won't have to pay an arm and a leg for paint! And, don't spill gasoline or anti-freeze on it! by: Rustyj And anyway, if you have asthma symptoms, or it runs in yer family, don't even consider spray painting with any products that require hardener to be added to the paint, unless you have a paint booth and a dedicated air supply!---Ask me how i know! rj

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CNKS

07-09-2005 17:25:31




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to Jeb2N, 07-09-2005 16:21:35  
I'm not familiar with Martin Senour, but all major paint companies have "economy" lines of paint that are around $80-$100 a gallon. These paints are immeasurably better than tractor store or rattle can paint. Base-clear may look a little better, but is not necessary on a tractor/engine. Oil won't hurt it, just don't spill gas on new paint, or you will get damage, no matter what you used. In fact if I used base-clear, it would probably go only on the sheet metal, as that is the most noticeable.

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Jeb2N

07-10-2005 05:35:50




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to CNKS, 07-09-2005 17:25:31  
Well, "Don't spill gas on new paint" is not an option on a hit and miss engine. Since it is an exposed crankshaft engine, the engine oil is slung everywhere and actually collects in small pools in the block which is painted. Think of it as if you were painting the bed of a lathe where cutting oil is going to be all the time but you still want the paint to not bubble up. There is no sheet metal on this engine...all cast iron. I'll try and go back on Monday and talk with NAPAs more experienced paint guy.

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CNKS

07-10-2005 17:10:37




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to Jeb2N, 07-10-2005 05:35:50  
Sorry, I have never heard of a "hit and miss" engine, or at least I have never heard that type engine called that--I agree with Rod, the oil probably won't hurt anything after the paint has cured.



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Rod (NH)

07-10-2005 18:48:59




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to CNKS, 07-10-2005 17:10:37  
Hit and Miss is one term for an antique single cylinder engine where the engine speed is controlled by intermittent firing of the sparkplug. Make and Break is another term for the same thing. Also "one lunger". I know them more as "make and break" because that's what Dad always called them. It could even be a regional thing. I never knew they were referred to as "hit and miss" until I began navigating the internet. The one I have was originally used by the local town as the driver for a wheeled cement mixer - 1930's vintage I believe. It's about 2-1/2 or 3 hp and drives a flat belt. Dad had it rigged up on a cordwood saw for a long time when I was growing up. I "took away" many hours from that saw. You wouldn't see many kids doing that in today's world. They make a lovely putt-putt-putt sound of varying rapidity as the speed drops and increases back up. Under load, it's a very rapid putt-putt-putt. I suspect you know about them - just not by that particular name.

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CNKS

07-11-2005 05:06:36




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to Rod (NH), 07-10-2005 18:48:59  
Since I grew up in an area where there were no real native trees, just brush, I have never seen one. I believe the term I have heard is "one lunger". Some terms are regional. For example, I always called a cultivator, a cultivator. Some people on YTMag call them "scufflers". Never heard the term "tedder", either, until I found this web site.



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Rod (NH)

07-10-2005 09:49:15




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to Jeb2N, 07-10-2005 05:35:50  
Gasoline and lube oil are not the same thing. Read CN's answer again. I can avoid gasoline spills on my Stover H&M. The gas tank is, of course separate from the engine - connected only by a tight fuel line. I have a closed crankcase but there should be no gasoline problem back there, even with an open one - just lube oil. If you have gasoline spewing around like you imply, you have a fire hazard that you should certainly address before painting.

As far as paint goes, your best bet is a true polyurethane such as DuPont's Imron or PPG's Delfleet Evolution. In any event, I would recommend a single stage paint. There is no benefit to you at all in using a base/clear configuration unless you are using a metallic color. As an excellent second choice you could consider an acrylic urethane in single stage such as DuPont's ChromaOne or PPG's Concept. Since all of the above are premium lines and cost appears a consideration, PPG's economy line OMNI MTK acrylic urethane or something similar in DuPont's NASON line would be appropriate. I have no idea what the equivalent products are in the Martin Senour (NAPA) lines. I would suggest you avoid such marketing doublespeak as "urethane modified alkyd" however. You want a true two-component urethane paint. You just don't find that in rattle cans or cheap paints. And don't forget an appropriate primer for the topcoat. A two-component epoxy would be your best choice there. Plus, if you are concerned with health aspects, you should use a fresh air breathing system when using any urethane product. No matter which actual urethane you use, keep the gasoline and lube oil off it for a reasonable cure period - say at least a week. The OMNI MTK on my tractor gets splattered with grease from a sickle mower pitman drive all the time with no paint problem and the gasoline filler neck area sees occasional gasoline dribbles, also with no paint problem.

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Jeb2N

07-10-2005 20:07:06




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 Re: Green paint so $$$? in reply to Rod (NH), 07-10-2005 09:49:15  
Well the fuel tank on my Taylor engine is in the cast iron base of the engine itself with the fuel filler spout coming out right beside the flywheels and side of the engine. Any sloshing or gurgling at all will result in gasoline on the paint. My Tractor was painted with single stage NASON urethane and cured for several weeks and the paint still bubbled up and is continuing to do so. The oil i'm referring to is that which leaks past the piston rings and fills up the oil catch basin in the crankcase. This oil comes from the oiler and is regular motor oil. I'm not referring to the lube grease in the grease cups. This is an open crank engine and as such those parts of the engine normally enclosed and not worried about are exposed and painted on this engine. Hence my dilema about getting the right paint. These surfaces will constantly have engine motor oil on them from leakage which is normal and expected on these engines. I just would prefer it not to stain or bubble the paint up which happened on my tractor carb. You are right that gasoline spills probably could be kept to a minimum, but oil is unavoidable and constant. Just trying to keep from having to go back and repaint everything a second time in the near future from using the wrong paint.

Jeb

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