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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Frank Stalfire

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CNKS

07-29-2005 17:10:54

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Frank, what is acrylic modified aklyd enamel? Doing a search indicates that it is an industrial coating, PPG sells it, their spec sheet doesn't do a very good job of explaining it -- I don't know about DuPont. The paint sold by Case-IH for their older tractors, possibly other manufacturers, also is now an acrylic modified, has been for 2-3 years. Are these paints that much better than the old alkyd enamel? CIH is apparantly trying to sell a somewhat improved paint that does not cost as much as the economy acrylic enamels/urethanes. They apparantly contain some sort of UV inhibitor to prevent fading? PPG claims that "Exposure studies confirm that the fade resistance of the ALK 200 finish is significantly better than that of most interior/exterior enamels". If course there is no mention of AE or AU. I wonder how they would compare with Dupont's/PPG's Nason/Omni lines? I have a tractor with some hidden areas, such as the gas tank that I might consider using it on, to see how it flows out, etc. Impossible to make a direct comparison with the acrylic urethane that I'm going to put on the rest of the tractor, though. Just curious.

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BPNT

08-04-2005 20:19:03

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Re: Frank Stalfire in reply to CNKS, 07-29-2005 17:10:54

Perhaps you've found your answer, but please allow my 2 cents...simply put, relative to gloss retention and overall durability ALK200 (with 201 catalyst) is significantly superior to OMNI enamel and about equal to OMNI MTK urethane. If you've access to PPG industrial (ALK 200) search to see if you have access to AUE300. This product is the industrial equivalent to Concept at about 1/3rd the cost FYI. Although PPG industrials offer limited color availablity-take your senior-most jobber employee to lunch and you will find any DCC formula can be duplicated in AUE300 if someone is willing to help....

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CNKS

08-05-2005 05:31:12

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Re: Frank Stalfire in reply to BPNT, 08-04-2005 20:19:03

My question about the acrylic modified paints would be -- Have either the enamel or urethane versions been around long enough so that anyone knows what the fade resistance is, or do we simply take the companies word for it? The spec sheet is not going to say "ALK is good paint, but not as good as MTK". It also won't say it's better than MTK, because they still want to sell MTK for more money. My understanding is that these are fairly new paints, but I don't know for sure. The Omni line has a track record, for better or worse, I would be interested in the track record of the modifieds. I'm always interested in saving money, but not if I have to pay for it in lower quality later on.

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CNKS

07-29-2005 18:06:34

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Re: Frank Stalfire in reply to CNKS, 07-29-2005 17:10:54

Typo -- As to the PPG fade resistance, I should have quoted "alkyd enamels" did not mean to imply all enamels.

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Frank Stalfire

07-29-2005 21:42:37

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Re: Frank Stalfire in reply to CNKS, 07-29-2005 18:06:34

HI C
evryone is trying to make a better mouse trap and not re invent the wheel. You have a good product in Alkyds but it chalks in the sun, so the chemists figure out how to modify an alkyd resin with an acrylic polymer, it dramatically improved the dry times and did help the UV exposure but not perminently, it will still chalk with longterm exposure but not as fast as with straight alkyd resin. The dupont product is industrial, it's Tufcote 3.5 HG D, there is no automotive equvilent, DuPont took this one step futher and developed a urethane modified alky, Tufcote 3.5HG P it give alky urethane attributes as to durability and gloss retention, but you ultimatly are still working with an alkyd base, they both are justified by a low cost compared to pure urethane products. hope this helps
Frank

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Rod (NH)

07-30-2005 16:50:15

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Re: Frank Stalfire in reply to Frank Stalfire, 07-29-2005 21:42:37

Thanks Frank. I was curious also. It sounds like a fairly new hybrid between an alkyd and an acrylic enamel with properties also somewhere between the two.

By the way, what ever happened to the famous DuPont Dulux alkyd? Dust bin of history? I see the name is now popping up as a house paint (latex even) under the ICI corporate umbrella. I wouldn't think DuPont would be pleased with that given the long and great history that Dulux had as a DuPont tradename. I would have expected DuPont to keep the name and simply move it over to their equivalent commercial or industrial line product. I believe PPG has done something similar with their Durethane polyurethane - kept the name and moved it to another line.

As far as I know, many, many tractors in the 40's and 50's were painted using DuPont Dulux as the OEM paint. I painted my first car with it :o). I first thought that the original paint on my '42AC-B (what little is left) was a lacquer. However lacquer thinner doesn't attack it so my bet now is on it being Dulux - or possibly PPG's defunct Ditzco. You still see references to the old Dulux code numbers to this day in tractor circles, including this site - even though some are no longer valid formulas.

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CNKS

07-30-2005 08:38:55

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Re: Frank Stalfire in reply to Frank Stalfire, 07-29-2005 21:42:37

Thanks very much. You gave an understandable technical explanation of what think I already knew, but lacked the technical knowledge to put into words--I was just looking for verification of my thoughts about alkyd paint from someone who knows what they are talking about. I like your statement "they are both justified by a low cost compared to pure urethane products" -- which I interpret to mean that pure urethane is still better for people like me, who are willing to pay more (up to a point) for a product of higher quality. That does not mean that those using acrylic modified alkyd will not be satisfied with the results. But, I'm going to stick with pure urethane.

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