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overspray with hvlp

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Nick lapana

10-05-2005 13:59:28

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I"m painting a farmall regular. I bought a hvlp gravity feed gun. The regulator at the gun is at 10# with the trigger pulled. I sprayed the tank and it turned out very well. I sprayed the frame and have overspray everywhere accepted where I had finished spraying. I"ve been painting in the sun in the low 80"s. Paint guy says it"s drying to fast. Painted belt pulley and the hood in the shade today the hood turned out beautiful and the belt pulley has overspray.(same mix of paint). The problem seems to be when I paint across from what I just finished the overspray follows. Paint guy says paint should still be tacking, gooey, stringy. for 15 minutes. Mine is dry to the touch in about 5 to 10 min. Using nason fastdry acrylic enamel w/ med reducer. Please Help! Nick L.

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CNKS

10-05-2005 14:41:09

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to Nick lapana, 10-05-2005 13:59:28

Before you do anything else, set the regulator at the gun at 40-50 lbs, it should say that on the gun. The 10 lbs is tip pressure, the psi is reduced inside the gun and cannot be individually adjusted. With 10 at the gun it should be an impossibility for the paint to atomize properly. Your paint should be ready for the 2nd coat in 10-15 minutes, if 5 at the correct gun pressure, then your reducer is too fast, or you are using the wrong mix; use a slower one, although medium should work in your situation, could be borderline depending on what the DuPont specs say.

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Nick lapana

10-05-2005 16:07:22

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to CNKS, 10-05-2005 14:41:09

Is it 40-50#'s without the trigger pulled? And should the 10# number be erased from my memory? The paint mix is 4p/1r and the medium reducer (70-85degrees) is what was recommended by paint supplier. What is going on that it sprays ok on sheet metal(slight orange peel) to total overspray on the frame? Is the low pressure not mixing the air and paint correctly thus making it dry to fast? Can I just scotchbrite the frame and repaint? I've had to resand it once already because of the overspray. Guess I should have asked questions after the first time.
Thanks for your help. Nick L

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Rod (NH)

10-05-2005 20:11:09

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to Nick lapana, 10-05-2005 16:07:22

Hi Nick,

I'll agree with CNKS (as usual) except, while do you need to have the trigger pulled, I don't think you need to have paint in the gun when you set the air pressure. Here's how I do it. You need to stay out of the sun when you paint. Make sure the metal temperature is about the same as the ambient air temperature (in the shade). From the tech sheet, it looks like you are near the upper limit for the medium reducer, although it should work OK. You could try the slow reducer (85+) to see if that helps - that is if your temps stay up there in the 80s.

Another tip for painting outside: Do not paint in the afternoon and leave the part outside, particularly this time of the year. If you do, it will likely be dull as all getout in the morning - caused by dew. Only fix is to compound, if a hardener is used or to repaint. If you are a part of the world where the temperature never gets down to the dewpoint, I guess it would not be a problem.

The tech sheet also indicates acceptable recoating after 48 hrs. If that is true, then yes, you can scuff with a Scotch-Brite pad and shoot again, assuming that the Scotch-Brite takes care of your overspray problem. If not, then you'll have to actually sand.

I have asked before on this forum (w/o response) about anyone's personal experience with NASON Fast-Dry recoating. A similar acrylic enamel (OMNI MAE) from PPG is not recommended to be recoated after initial dry due to the possibility of lifting the previous coats. By lifting, I mean shrivelling up like the surface of a prune. If the FAST-Dry can indeed be safely recoated after 48 hrs, then it would be a good alternative acrylic product for anyone trying to avoid the safety issues with isocyanates in hardeners while keeping the cost down on the paint itself. Let me know of your experience in recoating this paint, if you would please.

Rod

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CNKS

10-06-2005 07:12:44

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to Rod (NH), 10-05-2005 20:11:09

I didn't like my wording about setting the gun pressure, but was too lazy to correct my slow typing. The way I do it is to pull the trigger with no paint, adjust to 50 psi using the wall regulator, then add paint, check the pattern along with making sure I still have 50, or what ever the gun says. As long as I keep the gun regulator wide open to avoid unintentionally moving it, it does not change -- nothing you don't already know, just reinforcing what we have said before. As you have said I don't really need a air adjustment on the gun, just a gauge.

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Jim WNY

10-05-2005 21:59:44

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to Rod (NH), 10-05-2005 20:11:09

I'm a real novice at painting so don't take anything I say as advice. However, I've noticed the quick drying when using the Nason Fast-dry on a Ford 8N. Painting outdoors in the shade, air temp mid to upper 70's, 8/2 mix with medium reducer. Using a gravity feed HVLP with 40 psi at the gun. The first medium coat tacks in 2 minutes or less. Second full wet coat is dry to touch in less than 10 minutes. Maybe it should be called Instant-dry.

In spite of this I haven't had the overspray problem and only a very slight orange peel on one piece. Certainly nothing worse than what I see on some current factory paint jobs.

As for recoating after 48 hours, I just tried that on a test piece that was painted 4 days ago. Hit it again yesterday and haven't seen any lifting at all.

Interestingly, I've seen 3 different tech sheets dated 4/94, 7/02 and 10/02. The earliest used an 8/3 mix rather than 8/2, and the latest no longer recommends a sealer as the previous ones did.

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Rod (NH)

10-07-2005 15:16:21

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to Jim WNY, 10-05-2005 21:59:44

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the response. Don't sell yourself short. Novices, even first timers, usually have something that adds to the conversation and knowledge. There are so many different products out there that no one can get a decent handle on even a significant number of them. I'm glad you confirmed that the tech sheet is correct for recoating of the Fast-Dry. That makes it easier to repair errors and offers another acrylic enamel choice for those who do not wish to go the expense of fresh air breathing equipment. DuPont's NASON Fast-Dry is apparently a better choice than PPG's OMNI MAE for that reason.

The tech sheet link that I provided was from the DuPont website so they apparently don't have the latest version up there for Fast-Dry. They are three years late! I have never used it but have been curious over their past recommendation for always using a sealer. If the stuff is applied over a compatible NASON primer, especially their own epoxy, there should be no reason at all for any "sealer". I am glad they removed that confusion.

That's a fast dry all right. Guess they named it well :o).

Rod

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Nick lapana

10-06-2005 07:18:54

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to Jim WNY, 10-05-2005 21:59:44

It seems a have many variables against me. What I'm still confused about is I painted the hood and belt pulley at the same time in the shade with to low of pressure, same mix of paint and the hood turned out fine and the belt pulley has overspray. The cast pieces seem to be giving me all the trouble(curves and nooks and crannies). I'm sure technique(distance and angle) is another issue. It seems to me that more pressure means more overspray. I have recoated the tractor frame after the 48 hour period and had no problems lifting or wrinkling. I'll fix the issues and try again although the weather change might beat me to it.

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CNKS

10-05-2005 17:37:28

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Re: overspray with hvlp in reply to Nick lapana, 10-05-2005 16:07:22

Your gun should have a number stamped on it that will tell you the pressure, or else the instructions that came with the gun will say. The range I gave was only a guess that likely covers whatever is on your gun. Whatever the gun says WITH the trigger pulled. With no paint flowing thru the gun the figure is meaningless. If you can't find a number, I would say 50 psi, as that is what mine are. You can forget the 10 psi. Also set the regulator on the gun wide open and adjust the pressure with the regulator on the wall, or your water trap, or wherever you have your main control. I too have problems with overspray due to my lousy technique on sheet metal but yours is likely caused by your painting in the sun -- I never have, Rod(NH) who paints outside will probably come in with comments. But, if you have piece of metal in the sun at an air temp of 80 degrees, the metal is likely heated to 100+ degrees--touch a car sitting in the sun. Thus the metal is too hot when the paint hits, the paint dries too fast, the overspray cannot flow into the freshly painted surface. Combine that with the low pressure and lack of atomization and you have a mess. If you are seeing overspray on the frame, your reducer is way off, likely caused by high surface temperature, as the overspray on the frame is usually invisible until you begin noticing loss of gloss weeks or months after application. I assume if you have had success sanding that you are using hardener. If so I don't know the recoat window of your paint, but if you can remove the overspray with scotchbrite you are likely ok. As to your tank being ok, my only guess is that the both air temperature and tank temperature were both ok. All this assumes you are using a gun with an air compressor. If you happen to be using a turbine, forget what I said about air pressure, the figures I gave are likely wrong.

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