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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Rod, CNKS, a few more questions

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scott#2

10-06-2005 12:27:25




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I have almost all pieces primed and top coated, MP 170 & MTK.

Questions,

1. Do you usually apply 2 or 3 coats of MTK? If so, how long can I wait between coats, the weather here has turned wet. Do you sand between coats?

2. What grit paper do you use on surfacer before spraying top coat? And do you sand wet or dry?

3. After my attempt with some flowable finishing putty (3m) on some pitted areas and after the top coat, I noticed some areas arent quite the way I like them. Do I just sand the top coat, apply more finishing putty, sand, prime and top coat again? Or is it back to bare metal for a re-do? This would be on the battery box top and the steel wheel. Actually the wheel is still coated with surfacer only, no top coat. Sand, fill, surfacer again? It only has 1 coat surfacer so far and I dont think 2 more will get the pits out.

After I topcoated the oil pan, the wire slipped off and it hit the ground. Funny how things seem to have a mind of their own just after you've painted them. When it hit the ground, it seemed like it was alive and was squirming all over the place, rocking back and forth, just so it would pick up some extra dirt and grass. I tried to wipe it down with reducer and re sprayed it but it still has rough spots. Can I just sand and top coat it again?

All this work so far, has taught me well and has better prepared me for the hood grill, tank and fenders. Hopefully that will take place in a week or two.

Thank You for all your help,

scott#2

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CNKS

10-06-2005 14:44:55




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to scott#2, 10-06-2005 12:27:25  
1. I use 3--those 3 coats should go on about 10-15 minutes apart, when the paint "flashes" or becomes tacky. In that case you do not sand between coats. As to recoating, meaning it has set a while, as you have probably discovered, the spec sheet does not give a recoat interval. Rod may be able to answer that one. If you are outside the recoat interval, whatever that is, you have to sand or possibly use a scotchbrite pad.
2. Rod and I will differ here a little, I use 400 grit and sand wet -- I think Rod sands dry -- whatever works. I usually am able to see some sanding scratches thru the topcoat, I don't consider that objectionable -- read the spec sheet for the surfacer, or topcoat, the grit is on one of them.
3. I fill pits with body filler. You should probably sand off the surfacer and do that. You will probably eventually get them filled with surfacer, but you will have to sand several coats of it, depending on how bad they are. Surfacer is really more for sanding scratches, IMO. As to the pan, you can sand and topcoat the next day. As you found the topcoat will not cover any nicks or scratches.

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Rod (NH)

10-07-2005 16:24:54




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to CNKS, 10-06-2005 14:44:55  
CN,

Yes, I prefer dry sanding at those grits. I don't think you should be able to see 400 grit sandscratches in surfacer after three coats of MTK. Or maybe you just have eagle eyesight :o). If you prefer wet sanding, next time try something a bit finer - or at least finish off with something finer - 500 or even 600 wet. The OMNI recommendations for wet sanding seem to call for a little finer grit than those for dry. I reserve the wet sanding process for the real fine grits (600-1500) that are prone to clogging when color sanding in preparation for compounding (buffing). In most cases, when a problem arises with a color coat(s), I much prefer sanding and reshooting rather than color sanding and buffing. For that I just hit it with 400 dry (or a Scotch-Brite GP pad - 360/400 equivalent). I don't find that method to result in excessive clogging of paper and I have never noticed any sand scratches after the reshoot. All my surfacer sanding is done with 400 dry - I have never seen the particular advantage of doing it wet, although many seem to do it that way.

Rod

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CNKS

10-07-2005 17:24:19




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to Rod (NH), 10-07-2005 16:24:54  
The scratches I see aren't very obvious and are only seen in the right light at the right angle. They could be in the metal below the surfacer and epoxy. I get some rather deep scratches sometimes, and may not use enough coats of surfacer. I've read that MP 182 should cover 80 grit scratches. Since I'm not trying to win a prize I don't worry about them, since they are not obvious. When I dry sand with 400 (by hand, not machine) the stuff plugs up immediately. There is a difference between brands of sandpaper, what do you use?

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Rod (NH)

10-07-2005 20:10:27




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to CNKS, 10-07-2005 17:24:19  
I've had great luck with the "purple" discs from 3M. They cut very well and don't seem to clog excessively when used by hand. Most of the ones I wind up discarding are more likely to be worn down than clogged. I use them both by hand and on a Porta-Cable random orbital sander. They do an excellent job with the MP182. They're pricey and not available in less than a box of 50 - but I think they are worth it. The biggest problem with them is that they are a non-standard reverse hook and loop so you need the 3M proprietary pad for machine use.

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scott#2

10-06-2005 20:14:42




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to CNKS, 10-06-2005 14:44:55  
Well, looks like I screwed up. I've never shot more than 1 heavy coat and now I cant go back and hit it again unless I sand. How dod you sand cast? Guess I'll have to live with it. At least I still have all the tin left to do and if I can remember, I will coat it 2 or 3 times. Thank You CNKS,

scott#2



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CNKS

10-07-2005 06:08:58




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to scott#2, 10-06-2005 20:14:42  
Just scotchrite the cast and give it one or two more coats. Do not scotchbrite between the next two coats. You will be ok. The recoat intervals, to me, are for reapplying without sanding or scuffing. I did have that problem when I painted my Super H and it was too orange -- about a week had passed, I figured I was outside the recoat interval if there is one, and I briefly considered scuffing and applying a new mix of paint -- I didn't, but you CAN do that with acrylic Urethane without problems, as long as you don't get too much of a buildup of paint. One place I ignore the instructions is where it says to give a light coat followed my a medium coat, etc. All of my coats are "wet", except I may not be looking for perfect coverage from the first one, it may be a little lighter. Also on the surfacer -- There you sand between coats. BUT, in the case of a surfacer "coat", though, that means you give it 2 or 3 coats, waiting 10 minutes or so between coats, without sanding, THEN let it dry, sand smooth, and repeat the process as needed. Just scuff your cast and reapply the MTK, you will be ok.

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scott#2

10-07-2005 11:32:19




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to CNKS, 10-07-2005 06:08:58  
Well that doesn't sound too bad, maybe after it dries out around here, I'll shoot the chasis again. The rest of the pieces were sprayed with a wet, heavy coat, right up to the point of running but I've only seen 2 so far. I dont think they need another coat.

It would seem to me that there would be a "liquid sandpaper" type of surface prep that could be rubbed on just to de-gloss ro break the surface film enough to allow adhesion for additional coats. I wonder if anyone knows of anything like that, that is safe to use with MTK?

Thanks CNKS,

scott#2

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Don L C

10-07-2005 19:45:28




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to scott#2, 10-07-2005 11:32:19  
Just reading along to see what has changed in the last 20 years.....what is MP182 and MTK ....I am getting ready to paint a farmall using Case/IHC red ..... Trying to find out what under coat to use....I bought the IHS primer....how about thinner?...I want it slick....what hardner do I use with this paint?

Don ---- S.W.Ohio



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CNKS

10-08-2005 09:45:30




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to Don L C, 10-07-2005 19:45:28  
MTK is PPG Omni single stage acrylic urethane, that is, it is not base coat-clear coat. MP 182 is an Omni urethane (used with hardener) surfacer used under the MTK. MP 170 is the Omni epoxy primer used under MTK on cast pieces or other parts that don't have to be absolutely smooth, or under MP182 on sheet metal. There are various combinations that will work, but it is best to use all products from the same company. If by CIH red, you mean the 2150 sold by Case-IH dealers, they also sell hardener, primer and reducer for that product. You must use a supplied air system is you use hardener, a charcoal mask is not adequate. I have never heard of IHS.

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CNKS

10-07-2005 19:17:49




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, a few more questions in reply to scott#2, 10-07-2005 11:32:19  
I don't know of anything like that, Scotchbrite is probably as easy as it gets.



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