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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

Rod, CNKS, Got a minuite?

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scott#2

11-25-2005 15:03:44




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I am starting to work on the tank, hood and grill. I posted a pic of the pitted grill a while back and know that that piece is going to take work and body filler. The other 2 pieces are pitted but no where near as bad or deep as the grill. The surfaces of the hood and tank are almost like they were sand blasted with an aggresive media. When I run my hand across them, its rough, like 120 grit paper but not like the grill where you can actually feel the pits and thier depressions.

I am just wondering if a couple coats of thick surfacer might handle these 2 pieces. When I applied one swipe of body filler on the tank, the amount left on was so little that I think I am wasting my time here and surfacer might do the job. I was wondering if you 2 have a rule of thumb on the size of the pits and the amount of filler left on the piece and in the pits before you just use surfacer and no filler? Hope that makes sence.

scott#2

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BobReeves

11-26-2005 09:52:30




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, Got a minuite? in reply to scott#2, 11-25-2005 15:03:44  
Another opinion... There is a difference between wanting to build something to use yourself for an occasional paint job and something you would build if you owned a body shop. If I were going to do what you want I would just use a squirrel cage blower off an old furnace, maybe two and HEPA furnace filters. It won't be perfect and the EPA will get you if they find out but it would be better than painting outside. Furnace blower motors are induction motors so no sparks, if you keep the wiring in good shape and use explosion proof switches it will be as safe as any high dollar explosion proof fan.

Might have to get creative with the duct work and filter holders, thinking about this a little... I would probably use two filters, one in the outside intake and one on the inside before the exhaust fan to catch overspray. I wouldn't hesitate to put something together like this and feel comfortable enough to use it.

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Rod (NH)

11-25-2005 16:45:17




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, Got a minuite? in reply to scott#2, 11-25-2005 15:03:44  
Scott,

If you remember the photos of my AC-B fender, you'll note that I misjudged the depth of pitting. What I thought would be rather easily taken care of with surfacer turned out not to be so easy. I wound up having to use eight coats of surfacer and a lot of unnecessary hand sanding. In hindsight I should have skimmed a coat of finishing putty first. That said, I don't use sand for blasting. I use Black Beauty grit instead. It's a slag product that cuts well (fairly aggressive) and lasts longer than sand. It also doesn't have the silica safety issue that sand has. In any event, the Black Beauty leaves a rather strong profile on sheet steel - at least the standard size grit does. It is rough to the feel but not deep enough to require finishing putty. As I recall, I think in the past I have gone from blast profile to two coats of epoxy and then directly to three coats of topcoat without having a problem. My guess is that any typical blast profile will not require anything more than a couple of coats of surfacer, if that even. See what the surface appearance is after two coats of epoxy. You can always skim a coat of finishing putty (not spot putty) on over the epoxy if it looks too rough for surfacer but I don't think you'll need to - at least from your description.

Rod

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scott#2

11-25-2005 17:14:54




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, Got a minuite? in reply to Rod (NH), 11-25-2005 16:45:17  
Yep, I remember the pics of your fender and have basically memorized your entire process. I have used that black beauty grit before and thats about how the pitting appears on the hood and tank. Rod, I had these last 3 pieces dipped at chem strip and the finish is matt grey in color, not bare shiney metal. I suspect they use some kind of acid con-coction for this process. I already skimmed the tank with filler before knocking off what looks like mill scale from the dipping. I wonder how well that filler will stay on? I will say this, what ever they put on these pieces after the dipping (or maybe its just the last rinsing/protective dip)) is definitly a rust protector. I started the hood and have sanded that with 60 grit to knock that finish off and to get to bare metal but I cant get the lower areas in that "sand blasted" finish to bare metal. Think that will cause any adhesion problems with the filler?

scott#2

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Rod (NH)

11-26-2005 15:27:18




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, Got a minuite? in reply to scott#2, 11-25-2005 17:14:54  
That "profile" you refer to as a "sandblasted" finish must be deeper than I thought. A go at it with 60 grit should knock down any peaks and permit you to get at the valleys - at least I would think so. If not, then I'll agree with CNKS that blasting is the best method. When I painted my truck cab several years ago I ran into the toughest rust that I have ever seen. At least I think it was rust. It was similar to a scale but really wasn't a scale. Heavy sanding with 80 grit wouldn't remove it. That's with a rotary die grinder, not a DA. I couldn't sandblast because it was on the top of fenders that were still on the vehicle. It was relatively smooth and not pitted. I just applied two coats of epoxy, a couple of surfacer and then topcoated. I haven't had any problems with it since. If blasting is not an option and if what you call "mill scale" seems tightly adhered, I wouldn't worry about it. My own preference (the majority of times) would be one coat of epoxy first, then a two-part finishing putty (within the epoxy window), then another coat of epoxy after sanding the putty rather than the other way around but either method should work. If you wind up sanding off all the putty rather easily then you should be close enough so the putty wouldn't be needed at all and surfacer alone after epoxy should do the trick.

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scott#2

11-26-2005 17:37:58




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, Got a minuite? in reply to Rod (NH), 11-26-2005 15:27:18  
Yep, I hit a 3 pieces with 60 grit then wire wheeled them to shiney. I just covered them all with filler, figured what the heck. Its too cold to paint anyways, might as well do something in the right direction. It's supposed to be in the 60s this coming week but possibly with some rain. I'll sand them all down tomorrow and hopefully shoot this week. Thanks guys.

scott#2



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CNKS

11-25-2005 18:04:23




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 Re: Rod, CNKS, Got a minuite? in reply to scott#2, 11-25-2005 17:14:54  
The only way you are going to get to the bottom of the pits is to sand or media blast. If you think the metal is rust protected, just use a two-part putty and don't worry about adhesion, I would sand it good first. I'm not sure what they dipped it in. Some places use a basic (alkaline) dip rather than acid. Not sure what it does as to converting rust. Any doubt, use Picklex or Must for Rust or some similar product, then use the putty or body filler. I have a similar situation in some rather badly pitted fenders. It is easy to sand the filler out of the pits, some of my filler mostly covers the pits, but is still not up to the surface. I'm going to chance the surfacer, if it doesn't work, I'll have to either accept them or do them over, I'm about 90% sure the surfacer will cover them. Another thought -- you "may" be able to get to the bottom of the pits with a wire wheel or cup or other brush on an angle grinder or drill, I doubt it -- but on sheet metal sometimes those brushes do more harm than good.

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