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Turbo an antique

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burns

09-30-2002 12:28:28

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I was chattin with a local fabricator regarding adding a turbo system to an antique engine. I was wondering in the days of welding heads together, surely someone has tried a turbo. Anyone aware of a reliable consistant engine in a 2-banger or Farmall m-450 that has been successful with a turbo?
I'd tend to think that the spooling rate, boost pressure, or waste gate control would be difficult to manage.

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D.Q.'ed

10-03-2002 13:56:43

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

I ran a turbo on an oliver 88D. put 60' on second place!!! then I had a nice long talk with the entire tech crew (no turbo's allowed) Turbo comes off in about 20 minutes, so they let me pull the next class. only won buy 30', but got a lot of nasty looks! was a well spent $5

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Seamo

10-01-2002 21:00:20

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

Hi Burns, Rick and Dick Coffman of Oakland,Illinois would run there unstyled "A" with a Holley carb and a turbo just to have some fun .They could change it over in less than 30 min.It would really go but it never made any noise out the exhaust it was real quiet,just a little whistle.That was 15yrs ago they were the only one I have seen that made it work. Earl

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Greg Lussetto

09-30-2002 17:09:01

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

My dad ran a turbocharged M with NTPA in the seventies. Once he worked the bugs out, it was a very reliable and competitive tractor. If you want any more information email me or call me @ 308-262-0566. Won't ever charge you like this george guy.

Greg

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ol George

09-30-2002 19:49:32

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Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to Greg Lussetto, 09-30-2002 17:09:01

I didn't say I would charge anyone. I said that it wouldn't be free, now when you turbo a tractor and you have never done it before I don't care how many people help you it still will cost, because no antique other than a GM power plant is ready for forced induction. Take a poor boys advice do some research before u start. Best of luck folks.

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farmallflogger

09-30-2002 18:46:16

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Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to Greg Lussetto, 09-30-2002 17:09:01

Hey Greg,

Could you post that photo on here? I'm sure all these guys would love to see it. I'd like to see it again too.

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Greg Lussetto

09-30-2002 21:14:23

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Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to farmallflogger, 09-30-2002 18:46:16

Picture from the 1978 Indy Super Pull

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ohiompuller

10-01-2002 09:08:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to Greg Lussetto, 09-30-2002 21:14:23

That is one sweet picture, if you have anymore like that please post them. It made a great Wallpaper for my computer.

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burns

10-01-2002 03:32:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to Greg Lussetto, 09-30-2002 21:14:23

Good lookin tractor even if it is a red one. What is the white bottle just aft of the side shield?

HP??

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Greg Lussetto

10-01-2002 06:46:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 10-01-2002 03:32:39

The bottle contained a water and alcohol mixture. He estimated the horsepower at 450. A 4010 was set up the same way later if it makes you feel better.

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JDGnut

09-30-2002 15:32:03

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

A few yrs ago there was a some pics of a 70D that was running a Turbo.. I think he really had to turn the RPM's in the 2 banger to get much turbo.. the long dead time with no exhaust his hard on the turbo.. but I guess if you get the right sized turbo??? I think the multi-cylinder engines would do much better.
I did actually look into this.. and I do have the turbo sitting in the shop.. but it was a project that was drop about 4 yrs ago, when we finally adopted some rules... Good Luck.

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Ted

09-30-2002 15:14:02

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

I agree G-Man.I respect anyone with the skills to pack reliable cubes into a factory block or those who work to hit a setup but when someone fabricates "artificial" horsepower like M Puller discribes it makes sick...What satisfaction one must feel when they win there class.

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09-30-2002 14:48:28

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

A couple guys out in SD have tried to start an antique turbo class. A couple guys pulled at our pull this summer. One was a cockshutt and the other was an unstyled A. I know of two guys working MM's up and had them running late this summer. Another is also putting a 2 cylinder together and I am putzing with an MM diesel. The class is 1960 and older. I know the gassers had some issues with fuel flow, but once dialed close, they walked pretty good down the track.

They are asking for steel flywheel, safety blanket and side shields if you turn over 3000 rpm's.

The basic reason this was started was the cost to keep competative in Div IV, it was cheaper to add a turbo than to "build" crankshafts and blocks and now heads - it's gotten out of hand. Yes it takes some money, but a turbo isn't big dollars for the application were using it for. Not to say it wouldn't get there..... .....

Not to bring up old wounds, but how is a head welded together different than a crankshaft that is totally machine from a piece of raw steel???? At least the heads were a "production part" at one time.

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farmallflogger

09-30-2002 14:38:35

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

Hey Burns,

There was a picture on the redpower board a while back of an M farmall that was turboed. It ran as a super stocker back in the 70s. The guy said it had 4 1/4 pistons, he didn't mention any stroke but he guesstimated around 300 horses. Pulled 6000-7000 lb classes in 3rd and 4th gear. Think he said he turned it about 3800 rpm.

I've been hearing a puller from around here is building a turbo gas moline with fuel injection. I'm sure the injection would solve a lot of potential carb sealing problems. Thinkin about hanging a windmill on the G?

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burns

10-01-2002 03:30:28

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Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to farmallflogger, 09-30-2002 14:38:35

I'll pass on the windmill for the Burns-O. I'm more concerned that I get a good washing on the ol' boy (aerodynamics--gotta have it) 8^)

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ToddF

09-30-2002 14:28:27

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

There was a kid working for my brothers this summer that had an M that he and his buddies tinkered with for pulling. Apparrently they figured there was just too much time for sleeping at night because there were a few nights that they just plain forwent sleep altogether. The jury rigging that they did on that thing was down right impressive and able to make you wince at the same time. He gave up a good bit of his salary to Denny's: Block cement, carb, pistons and ignition. That put him around 70 Hp on the dyno. My brothers had a turbo on the shelf from a Ford 7710 that cracked the block doing an honest days work on the farm. Well one night that turbo ended up on the M, mounted above the hood. The first pull on the dyno it didn't have enough fuel, so he added a sure flow pump off our sprayer to push fuel into the bowl. Turned out that was to much fuel and the thing flooded out. So he added a small pair of vice grips to the fuel line and started cranking them down until he could run. I should make mention that the pump was on a toggle switch that he turned on from the seat when the turbo started spooling. With a little fine tuning on the dyno he got 110 Hp out of it. He took it to the pull and made 3 hooks with it and did alright, sure caught the crowds eye with it. Other than the turbo on it and the associated plumbing, it looked like it came right out of the hedge row. So yeah a turbo is possible, I've seen it done. I'm hogging the board here, but if you want to know more of the details ask.

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M Puller

09-30-2002 12:41:35

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Re: Turbo an antique in reply to burns, 09-30-2002 12:28:28

I myself have installed a ram air system on my M that has gone undetected for two years now. I set it up inside the oil bath system and used a 12volt motor to force the air to the carb. All I do is hit a switch at the start of the hook and boom 500cfm of air just like that. Tech specs. are to stupid to even be the wiser, I increased horse by a VERY noticable rate. If you just think about it and can fabricate a little you can do exactly what I did very inexpensively.

P.S. Tech Boys I pull Div. II

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old puller

10-01-2002 05:11:09

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Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to M Puller, 09-30-2002 12:41:35

think about it there is no way this fan helps, it cant moove enough air to help, it probly hurts moore than it helps, but in his cheating mind its a plaseabo,(not spelled right im sure

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Tech Boy

09-30-2002 14:11:49

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Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to M Puller, 09-30-2002 12:41:35

After looking over the NATPA Div II rules, you are legal. Another loop hole.

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G-MAN - legal?

09-30-2002 15:41:57

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Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to Tech Boy, 09-30-2002 14:11:49

I did some checking of the Div. II rules after mhy last post. Engines must be naturally aspirated, with the exception of the GM two-stroke diesels, which need the blower to scavenge the cylinders. A fan in the air cleaner to increase airflow into the carb amounts to forced induction. Obviously it wouln't be as effective as a turbocharger or a supercharger, but if it increases CFM, it is forced induction. Doesn't look too legal to me..... ....

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G-MAN

09-30-2002 15:36:06

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Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to Tech Boy, 09-30-2002 14:11:49

There is a fine line between legal and ethical. Just because something is "legal" doesn't mean that it should necessarily be done. If more people read the rules in a more literal, common sense manner, there wouldn't be nearly as much complaining about them. Instead, lots of people interpret the rules as anything that isn't specifially disallowed is legal. Then, when the associations create more rules to outlaw specific items, guys complain that there are too many rules. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy - those that don't police and govern themselves force others to do it for them. And the next thing you know, everybody is torqued off because of it. If he needs this modification to be competitive, because others are better at tuning, weighting and reading the track, then more power to him. Gotta win that $3 trophy - that's what it's all about. BTW - if he beat you in a pull and you knew he had this modification, would you complain to the officials?

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Puller504

09-30-2002 17:45:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to G-MAN, 09-30-2002 15:36:06

If I knew about this modification I would demand a tech ruling on the legality of the modification. Daughter placed 4th in the 60hp. 6000# class at the pull Saturday. The dyno operator made sure we were at high idle because he was suprised to dyno a gas IH504 (rated 44hp) in the 60hp class! This tractor is stock except for the straight pipe on the exhaust. Daughter can outdrive most cheaters! And yes, we are legal with the 18 inch wide tires.

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G-MAN

09-30-2002 13:45:17

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Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to M Puller, 09-30-2002 12:41:35

Congratulations, not many people would have the guts to come out and admit that they have been cheating for two years. Then again, you don't have the guts to post a name or email address, so it's pretty irrelevant. Keep it up, you represent everything that's wrong with the hobby.

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ol George

09-30-2002 15:38:18

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Re: Re: Re: Turbo an antique in reply to G-MAN, 09-30-2002 13:45:17

Have run a turbo tractor for 10 years in the turbo classes; u can turbo anything but on the 2 deeres I would think a belt driven would work better. Currently running an MM with fuel inj. and a 560 with M sheetmetal with a single charger with carb, pulls 4th in 6000# with stock cubes usually spins out. DETAILS are not free,since it has taken some time to figure it out.

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