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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

torque

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a puller

10-30-2003 16:28:22




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how do you measure torque? How do you find it out? is there a measuring tool....other then the formula turned around to fing torque?
thanks




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rhudson

10-31-2003 11:51:49




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 Re: torque in reply to a puller, 10-30-2003 16:28:22  
several years ago i read where some college used a drawbar scale made from a hydraulic cylinder with a pressure gauge. by measuring the pounds pull at the drawbar and field speed they came up with hp numbers. could torque be determined by rpm and tire radius using the drawbar pull?



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Farmall450man

10-31-2003 12:24:59




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 Re: Re: torque in reply to rhudson, 10-31-2003 11:51:49  
Yes, you can determine the applied torque at the tire if you know the pounds of pull and the effective tire radius. The calculated value would be for the effective torque at the tires, which could be very different than the available engine torque. Tire slip would determine the amount of pull, which would determine the maximum effective torque. If there was no tire slip (very difficult to obtain) you would be determining how much torque was available to the rear axle.

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Buzzman72

10-31-2003 16:39:17




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 Re: Re: Re: torque in reply to Farmall450man, 10-31-2003 12:24:59  
Back in the '50's, on the Left Coast, a lot of rod shops had chassis dynos...they measured torque at the rear wheels by way of a pair of rollers mounted in the floor, attached to a dyno. Drag racers there preferred the chassis dyno results, because they actually gave you a figure of how much torque was actually hitting the pavement, and was a more accurate indicator of actual performance at the track.

You don't see many chassis dynos these days...for several reasons. First, they took up a lot of floor space, which couldn't easily be used for other (revenue-producing) purposes. Plus, as horsepower levels increased, cars often had to be chained so that they wouldn't propel themselves off the rollers and into the wall, the workbench, or the employees of the shop. So between the liability headaches and the lack of revenue from them--how many cars a week are you gonna dyno in a particular market?--these days they're few and far between...but it might be a good idea for a puller, if you could find one at a bargain-basement deal!

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Farmall450man

10-31-2003 10:17:29




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 Re: torque in reply to a puller, 10-30-2003 16:28:22  
a puller, As G-MAN has said, torque is a measurement of force. Horsepower is a measurement of work done. You don't do any work until there is a movement of mass or energy used to change sometime. Time and force are used to determine horsepower. That is why you have to know the RPM level at a given torque to calculate horsepower. A low horsepower tractor or engine may be able to develop the same torque level as a high horsepower engine, but it won't be able to do the same amount of work in a given time span. That's why a lower horsepower tractor can complete in a tractor pull, provided that it can develop the needed torque at the rear tires. It will just take longer to pull the sled the same distance. This assumes that the tires/traction are the same. Of course there are several opinions on the best way to get the sled down the track.

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G-MAN

10-30-2003 16:46:57




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 Re: torque in reply to a puller, 10-30-2003 16:28:22  
Torque is measured on a dyno, or by measuring how much pressure is generated a known distance from the centerline of a shaft. If you take a 1-pound weight and hang it on the end of a 1-foot bar, attach it to a perpendicular bar and hold it in your hand, your hand will have to hold 1 lb.-ft. of torque to maintain the weight in a horizontal position. Just about any dyno that shows horsepower will also show torque, because horsepower is figured off of torque and rpm. In fact, they're ALWAYS showing torque, just on a scale that is calibrated to read in horsepower. It's not a horsepower formula turned around to read torque, although you can determine torque if you know the horsepower and rpm. Torque must be measured before horsepower can be computed.

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a puller

10-30-2003 17:26:10




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 Re: Re: torque in reply to G-MAN, 10-30-2003 16:46:57  
how can you measure it on a dyno though, it's measured through the pto...is there a way to measue it more direct to the engine?? thanks



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a puller(sorry..forgot so

10-30-2003 17:27:37




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 Re: Re: Re: torque in reply to a puller, 10-30-2003 17:26:10  
sorry....forgot one thing...since there are different ratios form the motor to the pto on different tractor brands, does the dyno tell the true story??? thanks a bunch..



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G-MAN

10-30-2003 18:17:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: torque in reply to a puller(sorry..forgot so, 10-30-2003 17:27:37  
There is some power lost when going through the PTO gear train, but that's a necessary evil, unless you have access to a regular engine dyno. How much is lost depends on how the PTO is driven. Loss-percentages vary depending on who you talk to, but the one thing you can do is compare your readings to a baseline or stock reading, and actually know how much you've improved the performance, because the losses will remain constant. But, the main thing to remember is that even if you dyno the engine by itself, it's STILL not an accurate picture of what you're putting to the ground, because there are also losses through the transmission and rear-end.

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dctom

10-30-2003 16:45:36




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 Re: torque in reply to a puller, 10-30-2003 16:28:22  
better still scroll down tillyou see his post on high ratio rockers he has it all explained there



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dctom

10-30-2003 16:42:19




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 Re: torque in reply to a puller, 10-30-2003 16:28:22  
leave a post for G-MAN he can explain it to you so you can understand it,



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__________

10-30-2003 18:14:29




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 Re: Re: torque in reply to dctom, 10-30-2003 16:42:19  
I think G-man is full of sh!t and would avise people to not take his advise



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Jerry B

10-31-2003 06:06:49




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 Re: Re: Re: torque in reply to __________, 10-30-2003 18:14:29  
JdPuller, (aka _____ _____ __)
If anyone is full it if, you be the one. You can't hide here, moron. Your DNS numbers give you away.

G-man has nothing to loose by telling you the truth or nothing to gain by telling a lie.

Some folks just don't trust any one smarter than they are. I bet you trust no one.



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TimC

10-31-2003 06:21:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: torque in reply to Jerry B, 10-31-2003 06:06:49  
Well said Jerry.



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buickanddeere

10-31-2003 17:09:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: torque in reply to JD PULLER, 10-31-2003 11:59:37  
Jdpuller. Are you trying to compensate after being intimidated by someone who can do basic math and physics? How do you raise yourself up by trying to pull G-man down?



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