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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Flywheel Questions

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Buzzman72

01-22-2004 07:32:47




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Like ol' Yosemite Sam, "I been a-thinkin'...an' mah head hurts!" On a stock/near-stock/farm stock tractor, it seems to me--based on what I've watched with the old hit-or-miss engines--that, at low rpm's, a heavier flywheel would be an advantage for keeping (engine) momentum going under load [during a pull]. After reading ChadS's post about the fellow running the two flywheels welded together, it occurred to me to ask: does anybody cast/build/manufacture/machine a heavier-than-stock flywheel for Farmalls (H, M, etc.)?

I KNOW this won't help on tractors that build higher-than-stock rpm's, but would it be worthwhile on a near-stock puller? And I'm not too sold on the idea of the weld-two-together idea...just curious...or would this maybe be tellin' somebody's family sedcrets?

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buickanddeere

01-24-2004 05:46:32




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 Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to Buzzman72, 01-22-2004 07:32:47  
No differnece in torque and HP with a light or heavy flywheel. Light flywheel in a lighteight vehicle helps acceleration and cuts vehicle weight. Heavy flywheels reduces shock loading of drivetrain parts upon each cylinder firing. Also allows lower rpms before stalling.



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Buzzman72

01-24-2004 06:31:27




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 Re: Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to buickanddeere, 01-24-2004 05:46:32  
"...allows lower rpms before stalling."

That's what I was trying to get someone else to say...I mean, in theory, that sounds right, according to what I've observed. I just wanted to see if any of you pullers have witnessed it that way.

Now...Part 2: Does anybody sell a "heavy" flywheel for an older Farmall (H, M, etc.)?



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HMMMMMMMM

01-23-2004 14:19:18




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 Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to Buzzman72, 01-22-2004 07:32:47  
i have thought about this alot too...how about lighter flywheel=lighter weight classes no need to lug at the end.....but back to the subject..seems like heavy flywheels would help only if you got the RPM's up a bit where it could actually make some momentum...as a matter of fact turnin the RPM up is basically like puttin a heavier Flywheel on BUT easier momentum=force x mass



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Mark

01-22-2004 23:06:49




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 Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to Buzzman72, 01-22-2004 07:32:47  
Here is something I have noticed at truck pulls.Super stock pulling trucks are limited to 410c.i.d.,they run around 7500 rpm's and when they shut the motors down at the end of a pull,it takes the engines a bit more time to slow down.These trucks run stroked small blocks AND heavy flywheels.Now in the Pro stock truck class where cubes are unlimited,the guys run big block engines that are stroked but light flywheels.

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Heavy Iron

01-22-2004 18:06:42




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 Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to Buzzman72, 01-22-2004 07:32:47  
Try this on a dyno with standard fly wheel on a tractor. Then have a machine shop knock 20 to 30 lbs. off the flywheel and try again. There will be zero difference in hp. Light fly wheel engines get rpm much quicker but lose it faster in hard pull. Heavy fly wheels only seem to help on JD two cyl. engines.



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ChadS

01-22-2004 18:16:37




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 Re: Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to Heavy Iron, 01-22-2004 18:06:42  
Lighter flywheel,, less torque,, heavier flywheel more torque. That is what the dyno says. Hope this helps,, You are right,, no change in HP at 540,, but lug it down it will drop off faster than one with ha heavier flywheel. ChadS



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Heavy Iron

01-22-2004 18:39:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to ChadS, 01-22-2004 18:16:37  
We tried this on wd45ac could see no difference in hp. at any rpm. No matter what we did with the dyno it ran 53hp we even killed it on the dyno just to see. No replacement for displacement when you need a little more hp.



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ChadS

01-22-2004 20:35:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to Heavy Iron, 01-22-2004 18:39:17  
It has no torque curve, it that what you are saying? any engine should increase HP when you lug it down,, even if it is only 2-5 hp before it drops off. If you have not got the carb set up foe the engine to lug down that far to low rpm,, it will die faster than usual. Just re jet it, you should be able to make it run rich when you back out the load adjustment. For an engine to increase torque,, it needs the proper fuel. And if it has more fuel, it will have more lug, and can handle the heavier parts and create more torque. It is called centrifical balance, more weight to spin, the longer it takes to slow down to stop, it creates energy, or inertia, or what ever the scientific term for it is. Just my opinion, I have tried it with Farmalls too, same result. I have actually made a ring that fits the outside of the flywheel behind the starter ring to make it heavier,, had it re balanced, and got 10 more hp on the torque curve, (below 540) and that is on a stock engine. Chad

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TimC

01-23-2004 13:07:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to ChadS, 01-22-2004 20:35:13  
Back in the 60s there were a couple chevys that toured the contries drag strips that had 2000 lbs worth of flywheels, a 283 engine and clutch and no transmission. They could smoke the tires the entire 1/4 mile if that tells you any thing about flywheel enertia and torque. (spelling?)

Different situation but similar thoughts.



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Buzzman72

01-23-2004 04:50:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to ChadS, 01-22-2004 20:35:13  
ChadS, I think you just answered my question in the last sentence of that last post. All else being equal, with sufficient fuel, spark, and compression, a heavier flywheel would seem to increase the amount of inertia--the force that keeps a body in motion, once it starts moving--and, theoretically at least, make the engine harder to stall at lower rpm's. In theory, at least, that sounds like it would work to the advantage of a stock/near-stock/farm stock puller.

But I guess nobody's ever won a pull with a theory, have they?

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Wild Horses

01-22-2004 10:16:31




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 Re: Flywheel Questions in reply to Buzzman72, 01-22-2004 07:32:47  
I can see both sides of it. The heavier flywheel on the Hit & Miss engines were used to keep the crank turning between firings like you said. But they don't have all the leverage from 38" tires and gears acting against them. The advantage of the JD's is not so much the flywheel as the ability to still fire at low RPM. What I mean is Farmalls or other 4-6 cylinder tractors will stall first. Maybe this has a little to do with the flywheel, I'm no engine builder. But on the flip side, wouldn't running a lighter flywheel mean you lose less HP to turn to motor.
The world may never know.

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