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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Oliver 88

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ChadS

01-23-2004 14:25:04




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I am really facinated with the 88 these days, the more and more I look and study it,, the more fun it sounds. I found a good combo for sleeves to 4-3/8 bore, I think that is as big as I will go right now, I am considering a stroker. I know I am a Binder kinda guy, but this oliver is awful tempting!! HA HA.. How far can the 88 be stroked and still use stock rods? I don't want light weight parts in this engine, And I will not run this thing over 30% over rpm, I have a good theory about heavier parts in these engines, After reading the posts about heavy flywheeels, got me thinking, If I make the internal parts as heavy as I can, It should have an incredible torque curve. Would like to get around an honest 150hp, and let the torque do the rest, and not be afraid to lug the engine hard. I know alot of the big ci Olivers don't like to lug them down a lot, I have always thought that when you lug an engine, that is putting power to the ground. I was thinking also around 400 ci, and would like to have as much compression as possible, just will have to wait and see.. ChadS

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Lynn

01-25-2004 10:05:26




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 Re: Oliver 88 in reply to ChadS, 01-23-2004 14:25:04  
I am building an oliver super 88 diesel with 400 cu. in. I am using a very hard to find counterbalanced crank out of a 195 waukesha oilfield engine. The crank weighs almost twice as much as a stock crank and it is pressure lubed to the rod instead of splash lubed. I believe in your theory of heavy parts in an engine making more torque. I am also using a very heavy rod with an aluminum piston. The rod has a 2-5/8 journal. I have a 1/2 of stroke and I am having to die grind a little on the block and the cam to make everything clear but I feel like the bottom end will be very strong and I have faith that it will not come apart. E-mail me if you want more info.

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zig

01-24-2004 14:25:19




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 Re: Oliver 88 in reply to ChadS, 01-23-2004 14:25:04  
Chad i have a set of 4.375 pistons whith 1.25 rist pins same as oliver rod never used whith rings from M+W you would have to machine them for your compresion i would sellcheap or trade they are heavy might be what you are looking for igot them for my 88 i went with KW pistons



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ChadS

01-24-2004 16:00:32




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 Re: Re: Oliver 88 in reply to zig, 01-24-2004 14:25:19  
Send an email!!!! Thank you!! hpuller@hotmail.com Chad



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farmall

01-24-2004 12:22:18




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 Re: Oliver 88 in reply to ChadS, 01-23-2004 14:25:04  
The flywheels function is to keep the crankshaft rotating between power strokes. All you need is enough weight to stabilize crank and keep impulses of engine firing out of driveline. Recipacating weight needs to be kept to a min.
for max power. The reason big diesels are heavy built (rods pistons, etc.) is for durability not for increased power. Hold your arm straight out with a 1 lb. weight and move up and down as fast as you can. Now try this with a 5 lb. weight. Much harder isn't it? The engine has to do this same thing 4000 times a minute at 2000 rpm's. Hope this helps.

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Michael

01-23-2004 16:17:12




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 Re: Oliver 88 in reply to ChadS, 01-23-2004 14:25:04  
Have considered going the other way, that is making crank etc out of titanium. However, my wife (part-time engineer, smart busness woman, and all around nice person) kindly pointed out that there are 2 types of momentum in an engine. (1) there is the up and down momentum of reciprical parts, connecting rod, pistons, valves, all which should be as light as possible, And (2) rotational momentum, ie crank shaft, flywheel, which should be as heavy as possible. The lighter the reciprical parts, the more HP. Also the heavier the rotational mass, the more retained energy. Sometimes you just can't argue with logic.

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ChadS

01-23-2004 17:44:19




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 Re: Re: Oliver 88 in reply to Michael, 01-23-2004 16:17:12  
She sounds like a dream!!! If I may,, let me explain my theory on this,, Ok First, a comparisson, If you were in prison, and had to break rocks with a hammer, what kind of hammer would you want to use? A 5lb, or a 18lb sledge. Which would have more "power" I know, it is not the size of the hammer, it is where you strike the rock... Lets look at a comparisson,,, Now I am just saying this in theory,, and not saying I am right or wrong.... Ok lets say you are looking for torque. Hp is not what you are really looking for, it is the engines capability to lug. Let me say,, if the engine has 250psi of comp, and the rod/piston combo weighs 2 lbs. Now, hp will come from compression, fuel, air flow, and rpm. Cubic inch is relitive, but not important in this case. Ok,, you have that specs,, now lets look at the downward force the piston and rod assembly puts on the power stroke on the crankshaft. I am sure there is a scientific formula on howt figure this,, but I don't know how,,, Ok,, take the same compression ratio, rpm, fuel, air flow, etc,, except use a 5lb assembly. My theory is, that the hp would still be there, but the torque would increase tremdously. due to the added weight from the rod/piston assembly. Kind of like the difference in the torque a big semi truck engine has ,compared to an automotive engine. In the big truck engines, it takes less rpm to make HP and incredible torque than the high rpm, light weight automotive engine. It would definately help to make the crank, and flywheel as heavy as possible, (and safely) In my case, I am not looking for HP,, I am looking for lugging power, to put an incredible load or strain on the engine, and be able to keep the engine running at a lower rpm. This is just my thoughts about how to create torque with out having to do it with head design, and all different conventional ways to super tune an engine. Chad

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Paul

01-23-2004 19:33:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Oliver 88 in reply to ChadS, 01-23-2004 17:44:19  
Piston and rods come to complete stop 5000 times a minute in an engine running 2500 rpm that having been said,all gain made in accelerating piston and rod would be lost stopping it and reaccelerating it back to the top also structure strength would become and issue in an 88 everybody pulling spends time and money trying to lighten rod and piston for this reason. what you are trying to gain with your thought process is not necesarily torque but inertia. inertia either with engine or flywheel or tractor is great at the end of track( wich is why guys dont want a speed limit).think of it this way if you knew you were going to shut the motor off 20 feet from finish line wich would you want tractor ground speed or fly wheel inertia. Iwould take the ground speed. i find it really hard to believe that any torque or horsepower( horsepower is torque times time) would be gained by adding inertia.I can see that a heavy flywheel would help get a tractor through a fast hard spot or allow a two banger to get to the next power stroke but beyond that not much gain. two other problems come to mind one is accelerating the extra mass the next is putting a thosand pound flywheel on and still getting in a 3500 lbs. class:0 .Paul

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ChadS

01-23-2004 21:46:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver 88 in reply to Paul, 01-23-2004 19:33:32  
So what you are saying is,, since the 6 cyl has a different crank throw pattern,, that the inertia change would hinder the rotaing assembly instead of keeping it going under an extreme load. Not enough balance in the engine, to make it work correctly. So in the 6 cyl case,, light parts will be better to make power in the 6, Should I work on completly balancing the rotating assembly, and keep the compression very high, and let the power take care of the rest? I know on a 4 cyl,, the crank pattern is 2 rods,pistons up, and 2 down, I have used the heavy parts in them, and makes a noticable difference in the torque it produces,,, the engines don't pull down as fast as one with light parts does,,, I belive what you are telling me,, and I think the difference is in the 4 cyl ,ad the cyl crank pattern, and how it operates. Am i close,, or off here? Thanks,, Chad

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Paul

01-24-2004 06:35:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver 88 in reply to ChadS, 01-23-2004 21:46:35  
I think that you would be best off to make rods and pistons as light as possible(within reason of course)putting full counter weight crank in ( for longlivity and inertia ) experiment with some flywheel weights go have fun. Paul



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