Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

IH govenors

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
ChadS

01-31-2004 08:18:09




Report to Moderator

All this talk of politics lately,, I forgot about talking about tractors.. LOL Well here is a few pointers on IH H-450 including W series tractors, on how to get more rpm out of your stock governor,, and a few do s, and dont's. Most pullers ar always looking for more rpm, and throttle responce in their IH puller. Most just back out the adjustment bolt in the governor using a stock spring. Well, yes it iwll increase rpm a bit,, but will over stress the stock spring in time. A stock governor spring,, is only good for about 1900 on an H series, and about 1750 on an M series. In retrospect,, this is not helping you. Most say "well wrap up the spring with wire." well, that will increase rpm too, but takes away the function of the governor, a major don't do. Not only will it over stress the internal levers in the governor, it is so difficult to set the rpm range you need to be legal in a class. And is dangerous!! that governor could open up that carb and the rpm could open up out of control. Imagine if that happens and not expecting it, Could be disaterous. OK,, There is 2 different styles of governor systems, a 2 weight, and a 4 weight. A 4 weight system has 4 speed controling weights in the governor. Most commonly called M&W. This system, will work well in a farm and field situation when the rpm needs to be maintained, but it really does not increase the performance of the engine. On dyno tests with this governor,, It is a slow, unresponceive system, and is the most difficult sytem to get higher rpms out of it. Even spring changes are hard to calculate, because of the increased pressure the 4 weights puts on the spring levern and shuts it down to the rpm it is designed to run. The 2 weight governor, is the best system to run on a pulling tractor. It is a very responcive system and is easy to increase performance of the engine. Ok,, Only modifications that need to be done to the IH governor is to change the spring. That little spring,, controls fast idle speed, throttle responce, and lugging capabitlity. My research on modifying 2 weight governors, I have ground off materials on the weights, changed lever angles, and so on and so on,, But the best way, is to find the right spring. The pupose of finding a good spring, is to be able to go beyond the rpm range you are allowed to run,, and then adjust it with the adjustment bolt. It will speed up governor operation, thus increase throttle resopnce and HP. Stock governor springs will shut the governor down as rpms begin to drop when putting a heavy load on it. It will not hold the carb open as rpm drops, it shuts it down faster, results,, power stall. When you increase the governor operation,, it will hold the carb open longer, and maintain rpm, and hold it open till the very end, even as the rpm drops, the carb will be open. Results,, more distance, and it may not power stall the engine as fast. The governor spring will be different in the H and M series, the H is a shorter spring,, and the M is a longer spring. If you switch the 2,, the M wont idle, and the H will not rev up. Remeber,, the governor is an engine control component, and is a very important part of any performance up grade. Most people bash ol Denny about his carbs,, well that is ok I guess, but if you have done nothing to the control that runs that carb,, the carb is just as useless a s stock carb. To me,, it is a misconception of the understanding on how these upgrades will help a tractor create power. But that is another story at this time.. Point is,, the governor is the key to unlocking a few more ponies, and change the entire characteristics on how the engine will run on the track. Hope this helps answer any questions that any may have. Chad

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Wild Horses

02-02-2004 10:26:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: IH govenors in reply to ChadS, 01-31-2004 08:18:09  
Most of the time, we wire 4-5 rounds of the spring together. Basically all it does is give you a stiffer spring. We're experimenting with solid linkages on the M's now. Under load it'll tach up to about 2000 (about 130%) but it won't pass a pit check, 3500 RPM no load. Also screws up your hand thottle movement.
Electric gov. sounds good, but don't think they'd allow that around here.
We pull under laplander rules sometimes and I'd like to find a quick way to change from 130% to 110%. Right now we just sneak in. Not a threat so no one checks much. I've been working on a way to shorten the hand throttle linkage, so it would pass a check, but still allow the gov to open 130%.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Proredpuller

02-01-2004 13:59:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: IH govenors in reply to ChadS, 01-31-2004 08:18:09  
Chad, you are exactly correct and state your point well. I worked at a governor company for 22 years and have "a little" experience with governor modifications. Unfortunately, the stock IH governor is a droop governor which leads to the conditions you refer to - which is actually called droop. Anywho, you can increase the operating band of the governor which provides increased responsiveness and other advantages and even masks the "droop" affect of the basic governor design. Again, unfortunately there are slight tweeks and tunes that can be done but none will make a droop governor great for tractor pulling. One suggestion I have been working on is an electronic governor. There are many manufacturers out there that make these for the diesel genset market. Most are quite small, operate off 12 volts and have 60deg of rotation within their actuator. I mounted one on a mounting bracket right on the throttle shaft of my M carb, drilled the bellhousing for a standard magnetic pickup, and used a three position switch for my speed setting. Worked well except I am waiting for an actuator modification or other linkage adaption that will provide 90 deg of rotation. Still working the bugs out but will let you know how it progresses. The advantage is infinite adjustablity with regards to dynamics and precision with regards to controlled speed. These are isochronous governors which means they will control exactly to their speed setpoint with no droop.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ChadS

02-01-2004 15:24:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Proredpuller, 02-01-2004 13:59:34  
Are you saying rpm by turning a dial or electric switch?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Proredpuller

02-02-2004 05:43:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to ChadS, 02-01-2004 15:24:45  
Yep... most of the electronic governors are set for discrete setpoint but some have 4-20mA setpoints that can be varied. In either case, depending upon which style is used, you can program what speed the 4ma signal corresponds to and what speed the 20mA signal corresponds to... and it will be exactly that at those values. On the discrete style, you determine what speed each selection will control at. The Woodward LSC uses 3 contact inputs to select various speed setpoints. The theory I was using was use one for idle, one for mid and one for rated (pulling) speed. Hope that helps.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ChadS

02-02-2004 07:13:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Proredpuller, 02-02-2004 05:43:13  
That would be very interesting to see! You would need some sort of servo to operate the carb, and maybe a way for the computer, or chip to automaticly set the rpm,, maybe use a rev limiter at first. A rheostat switch to operate the servo, Could be done with MSD igntion, and rev limiter to act as a chip to keep rpm down. Just my thought on that,,, Keep up the research! you could revolutionize the industry!! Chad

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Proredpuller

02-02-2004 07:58:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to ChadS, 02-02-2004 07:13:15  
ChadS,

the nice part of these small electronic governors is that they have an embedded all-electric servo. So the governor and actuator are actually combined which helps packaging. You set the RPM though a series of Windows based screens just telling the governor how many teeth are on the flywheel (or whatever other device you are sensing). I sensed the flywheel directly with a $15 MPU and just counted the teeth on the flywheel. Worked great the first time and never a chance of runaway unless the governor failed. None of these small devices have a return spring on the actuator which means you don't know where it will fail too. But, depending upon the linkage adaptation, you could use a standard return spring to pull it back but not a very strong one so the little actuator can still overcome it. This is the part still in development. But, the nice thing is this is proven technology. Hundreds of thousands of these are out there running small gensets every day. All we are doing is adapting the technology. I actually had to work on this for my 22-36 since it came with only a topping governor which did not support variable speed. If only I had more time to play, this certainly would help our sport (just my own personal opinion). More on this as it develops.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ChadS

02-02-2004 08:28:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Proredpuller, 02-02-2004 07:58:27  
Could you adapt a throttle postion sensor form like a Chevrolet Fuel injection body to help sence the shaft move ment? Not as a control device, but an imput sensor? I would see a ecm off of an automotive set up, and those computers have that kind of programming in them, as far as rpm, timing, and if you choose, fuel injection activators. Use them as imput devices. Computers can be a wonderful tool in pulling,, you have seen the new system that they set up on the engines,, and transmissions,, Great for monitoring imput, and be able to reconize a potential problem,,, Kinda off the subject here,, I belive that it would be way past state of the art to have a dial as the throttle, instead of a handle. Have you ever seen the rheostat that MSD ignitions use for their timing control? might be a good control device. MSD have built in rpm sensors in them, Just have to know how to utilize it to your advantage, I guess. Chad

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ChadS

02-02-2004 08:30:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to ChadS, 02-02-2004 08:28:43  
Would the carb off of the 6 cyl help as far as a different shaft to adapt a servo to?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Proredpuller

02-02-2004 08:55:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to ChadS, 02-02-2004 08:30:19  
Chad,

You are right on the money with regards to ECU/ECM suitability. There is so much technology that can be utilized, it just takes someone with a little time and experience to adapt it. I have utilized the MSD variable timing controller run into my NOS computer to help with pulling the timing back on our drag motors. All of this stuff works well if adapted correctly. Same goes with the actuator adaptation on to the carb. There are governors with embedded actuators that have 90 deg of rotation but they are larger usually run off of 24v. The Woodward LSC I have used is only about 3" long and approx. 2.5" in diameter with a standard Deutsch connector. I have it off at the moment but next time I have it mounted up, I'll send you a couple pictures. Oh, and this thing has about 4Hz of bandwidth so you can make it as fast as you want right up to the point that it wants to go unstable. Luckily it has a PID controller so there's gain, integral and derivative adjustments that will allow it to scream and not be unstable....(although I left mine a little unstable just for the conversation aspect).

Take care.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ChadS

02-02-2004 13:47:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Proredpuller, 02-02-2004 08:55:46  
So what basic copmonets to make it completly auto matic would be and rpm sensor, an throttle postion sensor, a ecm or cpu, and the rheostat or like something like that, as a control. May be another way to hook up to the carb linkage, a servo steering sysetm from a remote control car. Some of the servo steering in those are variable speed, and the contorls will allow you to steer in different angles, instead of turn completly right, or left, Follow what I am saying here? The more or less you move the controller, it responds with intermidate responces and gives you more control, and should find them with voltage under 12 or up to 12. I have messed around with rc cars in the past, and have had to rebuild a few steering servos,, and I know where to find them,, Anyways,, Might be something worth looking in to. Chad

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ChadS

02-02-2004 13:51:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenor in reply to ChadS, 02-02-2004 13:47:09  
Think about how precise your system would be!!!Man, if that works like you say it would,, That is not an improvement, that is revolutionary. In speed limit classes, all you have to do is turn the dial, set the speed, and go!! Sounds good to me!! ChadS



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ohio H

01-31-2004 11:40:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: IH govenors in reply to ChadS, 01-31-2004 08:18:09  
Chad; I have a Denny's governor kit (smaller weights, heavy yellow spring, different connector rod). Not installed yet, did i waste my $$$. Thanks again....H



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
wildman

01-31-2004 12:35:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Ohio H, 01-31-2004 11:40:08  
A FRIEND BOUGHT ONE OF HIS GOVENORS SURE WAS NOTHING BUT STOCK WITH WIEGHTS GROUND A LITTLE HE GOT SH--AND YOU MOST LIKELY DID TO.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmall

01-31-2004 11:56:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Ohio H, 01-31-2004 11:40:08  
Yes you did! I bought one and put it on a friends 'H' and didn't like it. Just my opinion



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jason

02-02-2004 09:45:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to farmall, 01-31-2004 11:56:11  
Well, lets here the good and bad about the Rocket Governors! I was going to purchase one of those, but I want to here the good and bad, Thanks.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Flogger

02-02-2004 14:10:04




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Jason, 02-02-2004 09:45:45  
I'm running a Rocket governor. Not sure about the 4 weight vs 2 weight argument, but the Rocket uniball linkage has to be a big improvement over the old I-H rod and clevis. Mine seems to do fine although the classes I pull require stock rpms.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmall

02-02-2004 11:02:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: IH govenors in reply to Jason, 02-02-2004 09:45:45  
I like the rocket governors, and use one myself. The biggest drawback is the price. Some people complain about unstable high idle with the rocket
governors. I have found that the problem (on mine)
was engine tuning, not the governer. As with anything in pulling, everyone has there own ideas. just my 3 cents worth



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy