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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Possibly an HD ?

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Buzzman72

02-10-2004 05:34:22




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Just from some of the stuff I've read here lately...ChadS is putting a 460 motor in an H...basic 460 motor bolts up the same as an 806 motor...and a DT-466 can be transplanted into an 806...[Can you see where I'm headed here?]

So...does this mean that...if you're willing to "stretch" the side rails and the sheet metal, and find the right way to fit an 826 radiator to it...you could build a DIESEL H?

Besides the risk of destroying the stock H drivetrain, does this sound like a fun project or what? Or am I the only one off on a separate planet here?

In my mind, I'm seein' a loooonnnnng tractor that looks somethin' like an H, pullin' the front wheels and blowin' black smoke and flame out the stack...[did someone say "propane"?]...

Now, not to pick on ChadS, but THAT would TRULY be "Somethin' Wilder!"

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mike

02-10-2004 13:45:20




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 Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Buzzman72, 02-10-2004 05:34:22  
i have cultivated tobacco for years with a super c dsl, we found a 340 utility dsl doner



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ChadS

02-10-2004 11:46:30




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 Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Buzzman72, 02-10-2004 05:34:22  
Now on the 466,, the M rear end and bell housing will work,, more room in there for a big flywheel diameter, imagine a 466 in a M, maybe dressed up like a 560, and under 4500? The M and the 560 will interchang parts as far as frame rails, and front ends, just like the 460 and the H. 560 has a big diameter bellhousings like the M, could be an endless possibility there too!! Chad



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Mopower

02-10-2004 09:48:08




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 Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Buzzman72, 02-10-2004 05:34:22  
Now you guys are getting pretty creative. A diesel H would be quite a sight. I am not familiar with intercheangeability of Farmall parts, but have often considered a diesel MM model R or even diesel or propane Twin City. With the right bell housings on motors, you could have some fun. With the popularity of IH stuff, a turbo diesel H would be great. Not sure what rules would say. Keep that tranny together!!! AC unstyled WC 6cyl. diesel? Hmmmm.

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ChadS

02-10-2004 11:43:42




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 Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Mopower, 02-10-2004 09:48:08  
The Wc would be simple!! You would need to find a WD45 diesel bell housing, if they are not the same as the 4 cyl, find a 262 buda, and drop it right in. The parts from a 460 and the H will interchange all day long as far as the whole front end assmbly, it would give you more room along the sides of the engine for a steering shaft, and are heavier than the H rails. I was thinking about something interesting,, A german 358D in a H,, I have a neighbor that put one in a 460, had a turbo, and was a strong puller!! Anythingyou can do to a 460, as far as engines swaps, can be done with the H. I agree about not rough housing the tractor, I think that there ought to be a class in NATPA and USAP with a speed limit, that would allow these kind of modifications, Something for us shadetree mechanics to have some fun and show off their accomplishments too!! If any one would like more info on what patrs to use in a conversion like this, let me know, Would be happy to share info. I do know of someone who is putting in a RD450 in a H,, It is a gasser, but would be fun. A mini prostock class!!!! Think about it!! Chad

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Joe

02-10-2004 15:11:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2004 11:43:42  
i know of an M rear end with 460 sheet metal that is running a deisel out of a massey combine. It runs pretty good. Couple of twin brothers are also running 460's w/ IH 715? combine engines in them as well. They are pretty tough to beat. I think a deisel MM R would be neat.

Joe



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ChadS

02-10-2004 06:34:48




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 Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Buzzman72, 02-10-2004 05:34:22  
I would not think a 466 would go in, but a 460/560 diesel, and the early 460 flywheel will do the trick, find a M&W turbo from the 560-806, and use 460 frame rails, would be no problems at all, Hmmmmm ,,, smoker H? Would be a blast!! Chad



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John

02-10-2004 17:56:27




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 Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2004 06:34:48  
why not use a d301 turbo setup right off the factory IH crawler. A friend of ours was pulling a nasty smoker 660.



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ChadS

02-10-2004 18:07:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to John, 02-10-2004 17:56:27  
HMMMMM ,,,,, ,,, We here on this pulling board may be on to something here!! LOL. One of the national clubs should have a turbo class for these types of tractors. put a speed limit, rpm limit, and turbo restriction. a mini prostock class for antiques!! I would pull one if there is places like that, who would allow that!! Chad



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Oliver Puller

02-10-2004 08:50:05




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 Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2004 06:34:48  
LOOK OUT, here comes ball bearings everwhere out of an H rear end!!!!!



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tractorboy

02-10-2004 15:36:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Oliver Puller, 02-10-2004 08:50:05  
If a 77 Oliver's little rearend will hold 200+ horsepower, an H will hold what Chad is discribing.



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Oliver Puller

02-11-2004 05:40:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to tractorboy, 02-10-2004 15:36:21  
Tractorboy, you must not be familiar with farmall rearends. They dont do well with stock horse power much less a dt466! I can assure you that there are many 77s or 88s with lots of horsepower in front of them and few have ever failed!



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tractorboy

02-11-2004 16:08:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Oliver Puller, 02-11-2004 05:40:35  
Oliverpuller, Those bearings you are talking about did not break but wore out. There is a differance. I was not badmouthing Oliver tractors but was just comparing the two. I personally have seen more olivers break under load than farmalls. I was basing my statement on the fact that the two tractors were made to sell against each other and do the same work when new. There is a farmall C pulling in our area with a 350 chevy that is nowhere near stock and has never had any problems so far.

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oliverpuller

02-11-2004 19:24:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to tractorboy, 02-11-2004 16:08:50  
I have seen alot more farmalls broke with rear axle problems, I see many Olivers running 2 chevy motors and never had any problems. I also see alot at these NATPA pulls running close to 600ci. All I can say is weight up that C farmall to 5500 or 6500 and you can watch pieces of your ball bearings worn or new go out the rear axle!!!!!



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tractorboy

02-11-2004 19:51:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to oliverpuller, 02-11-2004 19:24:00  
I think you just like to argue.



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ChadS

02-11-2004 07:19:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Oliver Puller, 02-11-2004 05:40:35  
A H rear end can handle quite a bit, as long it has been rebuilt, and all parts are new, bearings, gears, etc, Now the 466 would twist the H rear end in two, yes, no dispute, I know that an H rear end can handle well over 150hp, as long as you don't abuse it. Oliver 77 and 88 rear ends are actually less of a final drive, and transmission than the H, the shafts for the slider gears are smaller in diameter in the oliver, than the H,, I am not out to dispute which is better, IH or Oliver, they both can handle it. I would not put alot of HP to any tractor rear end, that has not been rebuilt, I have been pulling H's for years, I maintain all of my mechanical repairs, and my honest opinion, yes, the H rear end can handle it. Chad

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Oliver Puller

02-11-2004 08:12:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2004 07:19:13  
Chads, I am not going to argue with you about your H rear ends. We can all look back at one big failure with IH being they almost always had problems with those. I have seen a many H and M housings that were cracked from a ball bearing going between the ring and pinion. If these Hs are so much better then the Olivers show me some of the open class pullers with 1 or 2 v8 engines in them! I see many olivers in open classes turning many more horses. When I see 20-30 H farmalls in the open classes, then I will agree.

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ChadS

02-11-2004 08:28:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Oliver Puller, 02-11-2004 08:12:09  
Ok, But lets compare apples to apples, V8 and multiple V8's are in excess of 450-700hp per engine. One of the main reasons Oliver were used, is because of the gear slection, and the front frame is easier to install a V8. Most V8 classes are 5500 and up, not less than that, atleast to my knowledge, I never said they were better, Olivers are more commonly used. The fault in the H rear end is the differential housings, from the bearing race breaking off. That holds the differential up. right? is that the breakage you are talking about? Now on what we are talking about is less that 3000 rpm (possibly) How they choos to abuse it it's up to them. Nothing is indestructable, There is H rear end, V8's out there, not many,, but they are there. Only way to see what it can handle is to break one, and hope that no one is injured or killed, but everyone takes that risk with HP, and antiques. Chad

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buickanddeere

02-10-2004 10:45:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Oliver Puller, 02-10-2004 08:50:05  
Running lightweight with little or no ballast, being gentle on the clutch and as long as she doesn't get bouncing/hopping. That final drive will last quite a while.



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ChadS

02-10-2004 09:14:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Oliver Puller, 02-10-2004 08:50:05  
It's possible to break em, Would have to be all new parts to run something like that. Any thing can break, Just make sure that the rear end has all of the scatter blankets, and such, go pulling, Chad



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Wild Horses

02-10-2004 10:03:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2004 09:14:27  
An the guys around here think ~I'M~ crazy for dropping a 440 in an F20.



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ChadS

02-10-2004 11:34:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Wild Horses, 02-10-2004 10:03:41  
I think that F-20 would be a fun tractor!! Put a 6 pack on it and haul baby haul!! Chad



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Wild Horses

02-10-2004 12:23:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to ChadS, 02-10-2004 11:34:38  
We'll find out. Have to have it ready for our 4th of July pull. Got 4 to get going this spring. 2 M Farmalls, the 20, & Massey 44. One M & the Massey are old hot rod chassis so all we have to do is drop in a motor.



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TimC

02-10-2004 16:47:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to Wild Horses, 02-10-2004 12:23:19  
A friend of mine has a hotrod puller. A 429 or 460 built a little bit and turning about 6 grand in front of a F-20 rearend. If the F-20 has the rear that you can unbolt the side and turn them upside down or at whatever height you want the input to the rear to be. Been pulling it for many years now.



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farmallkid in Pa

02-11-2004 17:32:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Possibly an HD ? in reply to TimC, 02-10-2004 16:47:35  
oliver puller not to burst your bubble but in the year and a half i have been pullin tractors 1 of which is a 454 runnin alc. in a custom set of frame rails and a oliver 77 rear i have blown it out more than my M and H rears. the H and M have the advantege of bigger?thicker bull gears which help them stay together. i have only busted a rearend and it was an H but it was my fault i didnt replace the races that hold the bearing and i mucked the insine up good but if i had replaced it it probably would not have happened. even in the stock classes i pull my H,M,F-20 and 460 and i have never busted anything except for the block cause i was runnin about 4 thousand R's and a rod busted. i have see alot worse on olivers and a lot more often.

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