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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

JD G tune up

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ChadS

03-31-2004 07:01:51




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Fellas, I just got in a 49 G to tune up, it is a basicly stock, (.125 over kit) For a tune up, and dyno tune. should be interesting if I can wake it up a bit. It will run 10% over rpm. right now she don't run too well, awfull gassy!! LOL it has a 51 carb on it. Well more later, going to go dig in!! If I find some hidden power in it,, I will let you know what I did. Chad




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ChadS

04-01-2004 06:16:07




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 Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 03-31-2004 07:01:51  
It was rough, but it is running a whole lot better. 50hp. but she will lug, and lug hard!!! Good running, original G. The first dyno run, it was 44hp, I adjusted the carb, etc, etc, and it got better. My opinion of this is the G has too big of a carb for the compression. I can get plenty of fuel to it, but it fell on its face, until I tried something different, I made a restrictor plate, that goes between the carb, and the manifold, My theory is that it increased the vacuum pressure in the intake. After I installed it, it went up to 50. Maybe an A or B carb on a stocker would work better in this case?? But, anyways, that is what it is. Chad

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BUD BARENIE

04-01-2004 15:18:43




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 Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-01-2004 06:16:07  
WOULD YOU QUITE GIVEN AWAY ALL THE SECRETS ON THE INTERNET!!!
TOOK ME 1000DOLLARS TO FIQURE THAT ONE OUT !! A CHAD I WILL E-MAIL YOU OFF LINE. FOUND ATLEAST 2-5 HP ON THE (M) THERE'S A DEAD SPOT IN THE CYLINDER BORE !!!!! AN OEM DESIGN FLAW!!!!
ALSO WHAT CAN I DO ABOUT THE M WATER PUMP!!! GOT TO LEAVE IT ON BUT IT SURE DOESN'T SPIN FREE !! OUCH !!!!!



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G-MAN

04-01-2004 11:02:58




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 Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-01-2004 06:16:07  
Kind of makes you wonder how many "G" carbs were robbed to be put on stock or near-stock "A"s and "B"s to "increase" horsepower, doesn't it? Part of the reason for the difference is that the "G"s were all all-fuel tractors - made to burn kerosene and distillate, and the carbs are calibrated for those heavier fuels. Running a thinner, lighter fuel like gasoline is going to throw off the calibration. It would be interesting to see what effect your restrictor plate would have when running on kerosene, but that isn't going to be feasible with high-compression pistons in it. You'd never keep it from detonating.

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ChadS

04-02-2004 09:07:29




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 Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to G-MAN, 04-01-2004 11:02:58  
Not enough octane in kerosine to keep it from detonating. I agree 100 percent. that is why they ran so well with low compression on kerosine, and when they burned gas in them it does throw it off, but, there is the fine line, where it will be efficient, not 100% efficient, but enough to have a better characteristic in the way it runs. That G carb is huge, but in my opinion, it is too much for the stock engine to maintain a high vacuum pressure to draw a charge into the cyl. The restrictor plate,, I put it in to churn up the air more to increase the mixing process of the intake. it jumped a bit on the vacuum pressure. Same thing as putting on a smaller carb, you are not allowing more air in, but you are changing the speed at which the air flows into the cyl. Usually when you use a smaller carb, it will draw in more fuel due to an increase in vacuum. you have all the time in the world in these tractors to create a good air/fuel charge to go to the cyl. big carbs,, they will work in 2 ways, either in high rpms, or atleast 250-300psi of compression. not in low rpm situations though. seen it on the dyno way too much. all the talk of volume efficency,, well think about it, how much would the efficency be,, when you peak an engine to make peak power? make power,, you increase it, lose power and lugging power, you lose it. to me, it is close to be 90% efficency when an engine is matched to the engine. I don't know never tried to do the math, only worked with a tractor, and a dyno. Chad

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G-MAN

04-05-2004 07:47:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-02-2004 09:07:29  
The carbs have to be that big to flow enough air to fill those big cylinders. A smaller carb may feed more fuel in due to higher vacuum, but unless you get the air in to burn it with, you're not going to gain much, if any, power. You also have to keep in mind that those engines were designed to offer the best compromise between power and efficiency. You can make them more efficient or more powerful, but the factory set-up is going to provide the best balance of both, if everything is in good shape. I'm sure the Deere engineers knew what they were doing. They weren't building pulling tractors, they were building working tractors.

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ChadS

04-05-2004 08:30:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to G-MAN, 04-05-2004 07:47:38  
You are correct! JD are limited for performance options, and you have to do with what you have most of the time. On this Ol G, it was in poor running condition, carb was so off, it was popping through the carb. I thought it was ignition, but after going through the carb, and the ignition, the carb was the problem with the popping. It was too rich, but after it was all tuned up, it had a very different running characteristic. it would lug!! Now I know about what people think about "Spiking the dyno" but that is where I tune the engine, when the engine lugs, I set the carb, then rechecked the 540 rating, 50 hp, but, when you "Spike it" it would be in the high 90's before it dropped off. I say, that reading measures how much of a torque curve the engine has. or lugging power. Anyways, the carb would deliver a beautiful coca brown plug color, so it gets lots of fuel, the plate I made, just acts as a "churner" to speed up air flow. just something to change the way the air is delivered in to the intake, it did get stronger, not much, maybe 3 hp at 540, she runs very strong I think, and starts up cold without choking it, stays running the first crank, I had an A years back, it was a stocker, and when I bought it, it had a B carb on it, and would run at 44 hp with the B carb, time went on, I seen it was not for an A, so I changed it to the A carb, rejetted to the same as the B carb, and lost 5 hp. could not get it back. This was years ago, before I knew what I was doing, (my own opinion on that ) LOL it always stuck in my mind that it did that with the carb. Just about the only way to check, is to try it again sometime, and see from there. Have you ever played with a 730? Chad

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G-MAN

04-05-2004 10:51:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-05-2004 08:30:10  
Had a 730D on our dyno just a couple weeks ago. It came in on trade as pretty much completely stock, original working tractor. It made right at 50 hp on the dyno, which jives pretty well with the advertised belt-hp numbers for those tractors. Who knows how long it had been since it's last tune-up, fuel filter change, etc. What little bit of two-cylinder work I get to do here in the shop is usually on bone-stock tractors. I have a "60" that I'm going to play with some. Nothing major, and I may not even do the cosmetics, as it's a straight old original tractor. There's a pull coming up on Father's Day that I want to take it to. I need to rebuild the water pump (pulled it off yesterday), go through the carb, and replace the manifolds. I'd like to put a 630 manifold set on it, and eliminate the heat valve. If I want to put it on the dyno for tuning, I'll also have to get the PTO clutch rebuilt, as it won't hold. And there are a few other odds and ends to tackle. Running good with that low first gear, it ought to be a pretty solid tractor well up into the weight classes. I've talked to some guys that pull dead weight with "60"s, and they say they're pretty near unbeatable if they're right. And yes, pulling below rated is how you establisht the torque curve and torque rise percentage. You haven't pulled a tractor on the dyno til you've pulled a Deere 8520 down to 1300 engine rpm and pegged out a 375-hp dyno.

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ATHYRIO

04-02-2004 09:54:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-02-2004 09:07:29  
What a bunch of BS babbling. Do you even know what are you talking about?



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Denny JR

04-02-2004 11:16:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ATHYRIO, 04-02-2004 09:54:53  
Go back to kindygarten Athyrio, nap time is in 5 mins!! Go eat your cookies, and drink your milk, recess is after your nap, watch out for those bullys, they may kick your A$$!! See? I know a bit about your daily life too. SHMUCK! Your biggest fan, Denny JR.



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AC

04-02-2004 17:18:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to Denny JR, 04-02-2004 11:16:42  
LOL, go get him, JR!..LOL..... .....
ATHYRIO, I thought you gave it up when I had to put you down hard a couple weeks ago..you never could come up with a reply..then again, you must be used to getting put down and running away...just won't leave mom's leg will you?



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ATHYRIO

04-02-2004 12:25:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to Denny JR, 04-02-2004 11:16:42  
Read that bunch of BS you wrote and see if you can figure out what you were trying to say.

You wife left you because you are such a loser.
If it wasn't for your dad supporting your lasy a$$, you would have nothing. So tell us again how great of a puller you are because you got nothing else going for you.



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Chads

04-02-2004 14:35:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ATHYRIO, 04-02-2004 12:25:11  
Let me tell ya. you got some nerve. U think he is suporting me, in what I do? I think at this point and time it is the student, who educates the teacher these days for me. More like the other way around pal. Get off my butt? HA! Get off yours! Or wait, detention gets over at 5 huh? Now that the "Wife" is gone, I have gone through it all, and lost. learned from the whole thing. PEOPLE CHANGE!! So with extra time I have, I dedicate it to what has meant the most to me, TRACTOR PULLING! and pulling has been my life. You say that is nothing? Shoot son, that is eveything. what did I lose to become a loser? I see a winning family tradition continuing. You go harrass your mama and your daddy, word has it, that she did your homework, and you still flunked! DJR

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ATHYRIO

04-05-2004 15:09:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to Chads, 04-02-2004 14:35:37  
"pulling has been my life" LOL. Well you must suck at life also. What have you got to show for a life of pulling? A POS H that your dad built? It can't even compete in a real tractor pull. That last and only time you took more the 20 miles from home you got smoked.



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Denny JR

04-06-2004 10:36:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ATHYRIO, 04-05-2004 15:09:39  
Never cease to amaze me Athyrio. Dad built the first one, I built the rest of them, and all of them are still running today. Define a real tractor pull? You say you know me so well, HA!! then it is self explanitory. I have my life to show for myself, and would not change a thing about it, especially right now. Did I get smoked? Naaa, any one can be knocked down a peg or 2, some stay down, maybe even down for the count, but it takes courage to get back up, and that is what I have done, and will continue to be a force that only the strong survive. All I can say is that the ol POS, will be there, win lose or draw, it is not winning, it is the participation. If you knew anything about this sport, you would know that!! Go back to school! OR come pulling, and get educated. Well, it is your nap time! go get your cookie, and your milk, and nitey nite! Denny JR

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ATHYRIO

04-21-2004 07:01:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune in reply to Denny JR, 04-06-2004 10:36:30  
WELL WELL WELL. All this BS about how good your POS h is. It didn't win. Didn't even come close. Just a small pull with local pullers and you still can't compete. We all can see why you won't pull with the big boys. All your BS is just that, BS.



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ATHYRIO

04-01-2004 08:42:17




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 Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-01-2004 06:16:07  
Hey Denny JR, Take that plate you made and make the hole as big as the carb opening and see how much more horsepower you get. That JD trick has been around for more than thirity years. Where have you been?



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ChadS

04-01-2004 08:46:54




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 Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ATHYRIO, 04-01-2004 08:42:17  
That is what I did! I have not been pullin, or workin on em for 30 years. So good for me if something works huh? I have to tell ya, Don't mind you bustin my chops from time to time. Keeps me awake, and I get a kick out if it these days. How is the weather down there Athyrio? Denny Jr. LOL



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ATHYRIO

04-01-2004 09:14:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-01-2004 08:46:54  
I get a laugh from your logic on why it makes more power. A good physics book might help that pea size brain of yours. LOL
Tell your dad to get off his lazy a$$ and clean his shop up for you.



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ChadS

04-01-2004 11:54:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ATHYRIO, 04-01-2004 09:14:22  
LOL Yeah, it needs a good cleanin, but what shop does not? May not be the best logic, but I can say now, BEEN THERE DONE THAT! See? EDUCATION PAYS OFF! Maybe you can still pay attention in kindergarten, and learn!! HA HA HA HA. Chad



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buickanddeere

04-02-2004 13:57:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 04-01-2004 11:54:14  
How about running a very coarse hone down the carb, intake and ports. The "rough" causes turbulence along the port walls assisting in keeping the fuel drops in suspension. And getting fuel that has dropped out, back into suspension. Anything that straightens airflow into the carb is good too. Swapping the carb booster/nozzle internals can increase signal strength/fuel atomization and allow for the less viscous gasoline. Getting the engine and mainfold warmed up so fuel can't puddle on cold manifold and combustion chamber surfaces can make power/efficiency too.

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Jack

03-31-2004 07:36:29




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 Re: JD G tune up in reply to ChadS, 03-31-2004 07:01:51  
Your lookin at about 55 hp respectfully with no extensive head work or pulling cam.



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Chads

03-31-2004 11:37:05




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 Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to Jack, 03-31-2004 07:36:29  
We could get a pool goin here!! LOL!! Here is some specs,,, 110psi of compression, was 95 before valve adjustment, so that helped a bit, It seems to like it when the timing is advanced as much as possible, it has a Wico distributor/mag and will not move any more. It was popping through the carb before, when I put a load on the engine suddenly, timing, and carb adjusting got rid of it. It is running a whole lot better for an old G! It is a dead weight pulling tractor, and has had the popping problem for a while, (not a bad valve)) it just needed to be tuned a bit. Will have a HP number later on today. Just picked up some ear plugs,,,,, , when she gets talking, the whole neighborhood will hear it! Chad

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Ken C.

03-31-2004 19:45:56




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 Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to Chads, 03-31-2004 11:37:05  
Just reading some of your G specs, and am putting one together now with the same setup high comp pistons, but nothing else. Will this be enough hp. to pull 18.4-38 uncut tires from 5500 thru 8500 lbs, or will it stall out. My 60 does it fine but it has a slow first gear, and the G travels some faster in first. Any info is appreciated, Ken.



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Jack

04-01-2004 05:15:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to Ken C., 03-31-2004 19:45:56  
5500 with 18.4 38 might work but if your tracks are like ours 6500-8500 will be more than likly too much for just high compression pistons.I ran 16.9 38's and even with 59 hp smothered it out in the 7000 and 7500lb classes with biting track conditions.



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buickanddeere

04-01-2004 10:34:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JD G tune up in reply to Jack, 04-01-2004 05:15:52  
Put the 1st reduction gear set in from a 70 diesel. Slows each gear to 87% on a G or 70 spark ignition tractor.



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