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Rules, and more rules

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Big Time

12-16-2001 21:48:32




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wanting to pull an antique tractor. Every group i contact has a complete set of rules different from another. looks like a real headache. had an offer on my intended pull tractor, i may just leave this can of worms alone. sell it and forget it. some go by year and model, others weight, HP, what a joke. imagine Bowling with 35 sets of different rules. Hey lets make Football a real challenge, change the rules every week!! This loosely affiliated group of groups needs to come together, and write some basic rules, or forget the future, it wont be there. Neither will I

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wayne

12-31-2001 12:43:32




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 Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-16-2001 21:48:32  
set speed limit at 4mph. tire size max at16.9 on 14 inch wheels. weigh,em in. lets pull. have fun fun fun



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Newbie

12-23-2001 08:44:10




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 Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-16-2001 21:48:32  
I will be working on a tractor over the winter and hopefully will have it ready to pull in the spring. After reading everyone's posts for the last few months, this is what I've learned. Sooner or later there will be enough rules and classes so that everyone will go home with a trophy. Everyone will be happy and the only controversy will be whose trophy is shinier. However, I don't care for that scenerio. If we have one homogeneous set of rules, then some tracotrs will always have the advantage. If there are several sets of rules, then the pullers can pick and choose which pulls they have a fair chance of competing in. Then if you want to pull and don't care who has any advantages, it doesn't matter what the rules are. This way you are only limitted by the gas milage of your pickup.

r28

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Big Time

12-23-2001 14:48:04




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 Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Newbie, 12-23-2001 08:44:10  
That is what i meant, but like these pleasant folks pointed out, "if you dont like it leave"
seems this isnt freindly rivalry, but rude old men cheating anyway they can. You can easily see the lack of a bright future in this sport.



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Gary

12-24-2001 06:04:45




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 Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-23-2001 14:48:04  
The future of antique tractor pulling is the same as for any other human endever,how much time and money people are willing to put into it.You seem
to be such an expert critic of the sport and everyone involved in it.How much time and money do you have invested in antique tractor pulling?
Have you joined any clubs,do you help at pulls with registration or on the track,do you make a solid commentment to be at pulls so they can be a
financial success,are you willing to sponsor trophies and awards at pulls to keep others coming?Most pulls that exist are there because of
alot of hard work and some finanical risk by those
folks putting on the pull.You do these thing and
you will have earned the right to help set rules
and decide how things go at a pull.Showing up at
3 or 4 pulls a year paying your 5 bucks to pull and crying to everyone in sight ain't gonna get you any respect or a voice in how things are done.
The future of pulling in my area anyway is brighter than ever with me having a choice of up
to 3 different pulls I can attend within a 150 miles on some weekends,and they are all good well
run pulls,but alot of folks have done alot to
help create this situation.

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Big Time

12-24-2001 12:44:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Gary, 12-24-2001 06:04:45  
thare are only 1 and sometimes 2 on any weekend around here, and they are all a long drive. i dont want to go 150 miles and find out i am too new for their rules {some cut off at 53| and have to pull against current production. Nor do i want to take my all stock oliver and pull against a balanced, blueprited, hi performance built engine in green paint. Why go pay for hundreds of people to watch my machine get humiliated by daddy big bucks on his big budget hot rod. Just because they weigh the same. i have no experience short of reading the rules i have found posted and they are all different. my primary concern is what to do to mine, to make it worth my time to tow it all over and pay someone that is charging admission on both ends. I dont care about winning money or trophys at all. I have gone to a lot of them, and i have enjoyed it so far. All i want to do is continue to do so on the infeild.

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Gary

12-19-2001 04:26:35




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 Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-16-2001 21:48:32  
The trouble with bone stock pulling [pulling tractors just as they came from the factory]is that no one really wants it.The first thing that
comes up is tire size.There is alot of differences
in orginal tire sizes so the first thing the guys
who have tractors with factory narrow tires want to do is limit tire size,once you do this you aren't pulling stock tractors anymore,you are then
forcing some tractors to less than stock catagory.
Alot of folks say "I want a stock antique pull just as the tractor came from the factory except
Brand W can't do so and so cause that gives them an advantage over Brand Y".Which means they don't
want a stock pull.Pull rules are politics with every brand and type of puller looking out for themselves,if you want a rules change join the clubs you pull with,go to the meetings,get your wife,neighbor and friends to join who will vote as
you do then you can change the rules.Sitting around crying about it ain't gonna get it done.

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another thought

12-19-2001 03:29:06




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 Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-16-2001 21:48:32  
The bigger the club or pull the more divisions that can be offered. Not to many county fair pulls have the volunteers to manage more than a stock and open classes. So what ends up happening is the folks who have small modifications really don't belong in the stock division but are far from competitive in the open class. Where does the Farmall M-TA or JD G making 60 hp pull? We know where most are if there are only two classes offered. Then there is the farmer who unhooks from the spreader so they can continue with the "bragging rights" with his neighbor. Depending on the rules established and ENFORCED will they be able to compete.

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baystate binder

12-17-2001 15:02:05




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 Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-16-2001 21:48:32  
My feeling is the dyno is the fairest method. I also think that a stock antique tractor pull should be exactly as it states stock. A stock front end wheels motors and drive train. Electric fans aluminum radiators, external gas tanks, ect, ect, ect. should not be allowed. The rules we use are pretty simple and very effective.

Simply stated:
our weight classes are as follows 4500, 6000 45 stock hp or less, 6000 60 stock hp or less, 8000 80 stock hp or less, 10000 100 stock hp or less, 12000 120 stock hp or less. All the way up to 20000 lbs.

Tire sizes 18.4 /38 up to 12,000 20.8/38 over 12000.

all tractors 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are dyno'd and given a tolerance of 15% over factory stock. All Tractors are checked according to the Nebraska test points.

Unless someone wants to cheat the dyno which doesn't really happen. The pull is fair. You can't lighten up too much and you can be very competitive in two classes and with larger tractors you can be competitive in 3 or 4 classes.

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Get used to it, or,..

12-17-2001 13:51:19




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 Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-16-2001 21:48:32  
find another hobby. A person can't even pull with the same circuit and expect the rules to be exactly the same each week.Been that way for 30 plus years that I have pulled. We all have choices here men, 1 Go pull and have fun, 2 Don't pull, 3 pull and gripe. I'll take choices 1 and 2 gentlemen. Never figured that I had any "rights" as far as pulling goes, meaning I don't figure that it is who ever is running the pull's duty to have a class perfectly suited for my favorite tractor, the modifications I want to make, and my wallet. When I pull, and I beat everyone I should have, I won. If a hot rod or what ever tractor takes home the $8.00 trophy and the $25 first place money, so what. A person just hast to get past the deal of pointing fingers when he doesn't win because he is running a class he can't afford or because the rules don't suit his tractor. My 2 cents

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Deerepuller

12-19-2001 15:55:22




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 Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Get used to it, or,.., 12-17-2001 13:51:19  
A-men.



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casepuller

12-17-2001 17:18:06




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 Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Get used to it, or,.., 12-17-2001 13:51:19  
Well said.



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Troy

12-17-2001 04:03:48




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 Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-16-2001 21:48:32  
Antique pulling is a hobbie that we do for fun. So why should we let it get to he that spends the most wins the most.



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WL

12-17-2001 11:06:12




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 Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Troy, 12-17-2001 04:03:48  
Why not dyno the classes that are the problem,give them only percentage over stock,similar to the rpm rule,



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Troy

12-17-2001 14:39:43




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 Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to WL, 12-17-2001 11:06:12  
Problem is in our club there is no HP limit just 20% over on RPM's otherwise visibly stock. And trying to change that one will have everyone up in arms. I hope the little tractors keep coming to the pulls.



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Dan

12-17-2001 17:15:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Troy, 12-17-2001 14:39:43  
I think the stock classes should be that, STOCK!! If you are pulling in the open classes you should be able to do whatever you want just as long as you use the engine that came in the tractor. Modify it or whatever. That way the average puller can have fun in the stock class and the ones who want to spend more can go to the open class and run the 120 HP Super H's etc..



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ken

12-17-2001 20:02:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Dan, 12-17-2001 17:15:01  
You hit the nail on the head stock is stock and they need a place to pull. Started there.Ken



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Big Time

12-17-2001 21:57:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to ken, 12-17-2001 20:02:44  
all i wanted to do was pull my bone stock oliver against similar equipment. my biggest complaint was the wide variety of rules and the differences in them. why cant there be standard rules? or a handicap system? i would me more than happy to put hi-dome pistons in, have the head cut, ported and polished, have Iskenderian regrind the cam to a lumpy idle, remove everything from it, except 2nd gear and reverse gears, install steel wheels, but i dont want to HAVE to. I guess i am one of those dummies that likes plowing for hours with a straight pipe and a sunny day, the 2 cylinder popping away. as much as i would love 2500 shaft hp at 8,000 rpm, turning monster rubber 100mph, i have not the cash to do so.

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Hey mr. Big Time

12-18-2001 14:33:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-17-2001 21:57:11  
In my first post (get used to it) I didn't mean to imply that you are wrong in your desire to have fair, stock pulling classes. I just wanted to pass along some reality based on quite a few years experience. If a person could have an enforced STOCK class I am sure that before long one, maybe two tractor models would dominate it. If one of those would happen to be your Ollie, your in like flint. If not, you are in almost the same position you are in now. Again I say, you have no "right" to be offered a set of rules you like. You do however, have the "right" to start you own pulling circuit with stock only rules. I hope you do, and you are succesfull. I'll unhook the '40 H from the brushhog and bring her out. As long as tractor pulling remains a bush league sport, there aint going to be common rules, and if it goes big time, you ain't going to be able to afford it,.. that you can put in the bank.

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Greg Haddox

12-18-2001 10:23:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Big Time, 12-17-2001 21:57:11  
Big Time,
you're in the same position that I have always been in. You have a nice stock tractor, and you want to pull against other stock tractors, but you don't have a fair circuit that pulls that way. These different pulls also allow various degrees of modification depending on County. I too like to farm, and I enjoy my tractor more that way, than in pulling it. I've tried to pull a couple years with it, but I've come to realize, that if I'm ever going to do well, than I'm gonna have to go out and get myself some other junk tractor, and build it up to pull. It's just the way it is, and if you can tollerate the BS, and keep using your stock tractor, than it can be alot of fun.

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farmall flogger

12-18-2001 14:24:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to Greg Haddox, 12-18-2001 10:23:25  
If you limit speed, tire size, and rpms... And enforce them, The 50 horse tractors can compete with the 100 horse tractors in most classes. Horsepower is nice but to use it you usually either have to go heavier or faster. The exceptions are the ocassional "killer" tracks but most of the time it's a traction game. My opinion.



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slowmo57

12-18-2001 15:24:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to farmall flogger, 12-18-2001 14:24:47  
I pull 4 differt kinds of tractors in 2800-8000 div2.My family owns 2 scales we do 80+ shows a year & I"ve seen alot of rules.It seems to me for div2,all you need rpm limit for safty,no cut tires or over size because of traction=more money in tractor to win.Hitch limits=traction.Speed limit 3mph faster=horsepower=money.Just what I see from pulling and watching.



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baystate binder

12-18-2001 18:32:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to slowmo57, 12-18-2001 15:24:21  
I stated the rules we use to pull with and find them to be as fair as any in New England. But you are right there is no question if the pull is really stock only certain models will dominate each class it may be wd45 in 4500 or oliver., it will not be a farmall H or JD B. in 6000 or 6500 it will probably be a super m or 460 or some othe model. You get the picture. I think that is where the problem is in the first place. In New Englan with a transfer sled pull a JD doesn't stand a chance if all tractors are stock. However we have all seen strong G's that are modified some to compete. When theyt start winning someone says there is no way that tractor is stock and the fella with the super M pushes the limit then the guy with the Olie 880 pushes it and so on an so on. This is why Stock classes are so difficult to continue. But isn't that the case with all motor sports. Maybe the answer to all stock classes is to through awy the mesuring tapes?

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red dog

12-18-2001 21:08:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to baystate binder, 12-18-2001 18:32:00  
Rules are like regulations they are made to break. In all motor sports there always lots of rules,from nascar on down part of the game is to see how far you can go without being caught breaking the rules,thats part of the challenge! Been around motor sports 40+ years always been that way,also always had cry babies.



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LL

12-19-2001 17:31:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to red dog, 12-18-2001 21:08:15  
You sound like a man with with no integrity. I always follow the rules. If you say that rules are made to be broken that must also apply to laws and that would make you a low down peice of crap criminal. I hope that is not the case.



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Gary

12-20-2001 04:27:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to LL, 12-19-2001 17:31:20  
Tractor pulling is a sport much like football,not
real life some of the most honest and good hearted
folks I know will push every rule in the book at
a tractor pull and if they step "over the line" and get away with it thats just the way it goes.
When was the last time you were watching an NFL
game and an offensive tackle ran over to an offical and said "Hey I have to confess I held Ole
Big Bruno on the other team the last play"? Ain't
gonna happen EVER.Does that make him a criminal?
Get a life.Tractor pulling just a fun sport!

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red dog

12-19-2001 19:46:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to LL, 12-19-2001 17:31:20  
that was a quote from one the best nascar men there ever been,im glad you rate my integrity along with the imtinaters.you must not keep with nascar ,one race this year jeff gordon won they let him keep the win but finded him $$$$$$$$$$ for to big of holes in his carb. restricter blade.i still think out smarting the other players is part of the game some times you get caught,makes you get creative!

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pete

12-20-2001 07:28:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: rules, and more rules in reply to red dog, 12-19-2001 19:46:26  
There is always the " GOLDEN RULE "
" THOSE WHO HAVE THE GOLD.... MAKE THE RULES "



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