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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

hiesler head and manifold not impressed

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36 A

12-12-2004 12:32:39




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Put a hesler head and manifold on my 36 A and only gained 4 hp at 540 rpm.tractor has cast pistons .45 over stock stroke.Befor i installed the head i had 28 hp,after i installed it one dyno showed 32hp the next time on a different dyno showed 27.Whats going on here, this is not the kind of numbers everbody talks about.The day i had 32hp the guy realy put the screws to it and it pulled 45hp but that was all it had and it bearly recovered.Is it just me or is this it,it didnt pull as good as it did befor the swap.Thanks 36 A

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buickanddeere

12-16-2004 18:28:47




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to 36 A, 12-12-2004 12:32:39  
G-man and Todd have the correct facts on this one.



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Cubeking

12-12-2004 13:52:41




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to 36 A, 12-12-2004 12:32:39  
All that the unstyled heisler does is bump your compression up a little bit. While the heisler is probably flowed a bit better than the stock flathead, the better flow is negligable due to the small engine size you have. We run heislers on our styled As, and have been more than happy with the results. We also are running quite a bit more cubes in these tractors, with larger bores, and the larger stroke that styleds have over unstyleds. For a stock unstyled, the horsepower you got is right in line, so its not like something isn't working. Besides, two cylinders will pull better than what the dyno shows, as a 40 horse deere should beat a 40 horse 4 or 6 cylinder 9 out of 10 times. A couple of things you can do relatively cheap for some extra power is first, swap the crank for a styled crank, as it will give you a 6.75 stroke (.25 more). While you have the tractor apart to swap cranks, a cam regrind will always help, especially in holding the rpms better. The cam may not give much more hp, the tractor will lug far better than before. Also, roller rockers can help, as well as carb work and a hotter mag. A few hundred bucks will make a world of difference with the crank and cam, and everything will still be stock in that you could work the tractor all day long with no ill effects.

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another A

12-13-2004 18:47:47




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to Cubeking, 12-12-2004 13:52:41  
when you drop in the the styled crank do you have to change anything else or can everything else stay the same



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Cubeking

12-14-2004 13:32:35




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to another A, 12-13-2004 18:47:47  
When dropping in the styled crank, you need to use the styled rods, but everything else works the same.



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jd puller

12-14-2004 14:27:16




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to Cubeking, 12-14-2004 13:32:35  
you do not have to put the styled rods on it...but you cant use the original mag...you need to go to the later mag and change the lag timing on it and to do that you need to weld up the inpulse and file it down to the proper size. I have a 37 A that is cranking out 75 hp at 540 rpm. all it has is 5 7/8 aluminum pistons, late A crank, special dounuts, ported and polished head and manifold, large bore carb that I machined out, and large valves...pulls like a stiped a$$ ape but fuel is expencive...gotta run nitro methane through it.

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supermpuller4

12-12-2004 15:27:41




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to Cubeking, 12-12-2004 13:52:41  
Your facts don't pan out on the track, 40 hp is 40 hp cylinders don't have anything to do with it, nothing wins 9 out of 10 times especially a 2 cylinder.Drivers, tires and tractor balance will win you a pull, if everbody is running 40 hp.



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Shane Falco

12-14-2004 13:44:42




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to supermpuller4, 12-12-2004 15:27:41  
super m puller, bear this in mind--a Farmall super M, Oliver super 88, and a JD G were sold as comparable tractors in their day, yet the G is only rated at 38.5hp (less than the 88 and super M), yet it will pull right with the other COMPARABLE tractors (assuming that the drivers each weight their tractors wisely, eliminating that factor from the argument). It is different power, due to the torque factor. It is true that 40hp is 40hp, but the fewer the cylinders, the higher the torque at 40hp. Simply put, if you want to pull faster, go with a Farmall or Oliver. If torque is your fancy, stick with the two lungers, or the big cube molines, cases, etc.

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jak

12-12-2004 15:40:17




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to supermpuller4, 12-12-2004 15:27:41  
On the dyno a JD two cylinder won't be as impressive as a Farmall,Oliver,and ect but when pulled below 540 pto rpm's watch what happens as compared to a COMPERABLE tractor of it's size.Track talks too when it is tight and holding.Not bad talking anything but this is what has been learned.Yes big rpm's and big cubes the multi cylinder machines doo real well.Jak(TN).



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ChadS

12-14-2004 16:26:26




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to jak, 12-12-2004 15:40:17  
Seen a STOCK G JD out lug a hopped up IH M on the dyno, by about 20 hp on the torque curve. the G was 45 hp, and the M was 65. but the G had guts! What these guys say is the gospel,, torque monsters the JD's are! ChadS,, oh,, and that G is the tractor to beat in the deadweights. ChadS



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Paul Winter

12-12-2004 17:53:32




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to jak, 12-12-2004 15:40:17  
what you are talking is torque.a tractor putting out 40 horse at 1800 crankshaft rpm will have116 ftlbs.torque a tractor with40 horse at1000 rpm will have 210 ftlbs. this is why a diesel pickup with only 230 horse will pull right with a gas pickup with 350 horse. the diesel will not out run the gas burner in a drag race but the gasser might get passed on a steep grade. to find torque multiply 5250 xhorsepower and divide by rpm.
increasing commpression may not increase horsepower but will flatten torque curve.Paul

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G/MAN

12-13-2004 04:45:13




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to Paul Winter, 12-12-2004 17:53:32  
Exactly. Everybody thinks they're adding horsepower, but when you're running the same RPM and are getting more horsepower, you're adding torque. Torque is the work you can do, and horsepower is how fast you can do it. And an engine making the same horsepower at a lower speed has more torque, pure and simple.



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ToddF

12-14-2004 08:34:44




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 Re: hiesler head and manifold not impressed in reply to G/MAN, 12-13-2004 04:45:13  
I agree. If we take those engines that are making the same horsepower and run them thru appropriate transmissions such that the wheel speed is the same (ie 1.5 MPH), we would theoretically have the same force generated at the tire for both engines. As the load begins to exceed the engines rated torque at peak HP, the RPM necessarrily begins to drop. Most generally engines make peak torque below peak HP RPM, called torque rise I believe. This would be a measure of what we would consider lugging ability. As the required torque continues to increase the loading exceeds peak torque and the engine stalls. Or the traction limits are exceeded and the wheels spin out and the required torque never exceeds the engines peak torque.

Now back to the '36 A. It is entirely possible that the changes you have made are not so much at peak horsepower RPM, but more in the lower RPM range of the torque curve. This might be evident by seat of the pants on the track, or by taking measurements at multiple RPM's on the Dyno. I'm not sure you can have a lot of faith in comparison between numbers from two different dynos unless they have been accurately calibrated.

A parting thought: 4 HP in your case was about a 15% gain in HP and Torque at 540 RPM. That may not be too bad for the changes you've made, albeit not to your expectations.

I'll add that I am not an expert or all that experienced, but I do like the theories. :)

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